Billy Corgan

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idgi

tylerw, Friday, 16 March 2012 02:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

jeez I forgot they headlined the only Lollapalooza I went to as well

(also Nick Cave & Geo Clinton)

Literal Facepalms (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 March 2012 03:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

I just saw a Solis-Corgan interview clip that I can't find now, and Corgan was sort of incoherent for part of it but also made some pretty valid and lucid points. He was basically arguing that social media is a losing game for most musicians but one they have to play anyway. He said that today's landscape means non-stop competition just to hold someone's attention, which is not conducive to a musician building himself as an "Artist" (in the most admittedly cynical, commodified sense), and that the need to constantly beg fans to do stuff and look at stuff and share stuff on social media is pretty much antithetical to the traditional image of grandiose, mysterious capital A Artists, which is ultimately the kind of image you need to hold fans interest for longer periods of time.

Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 May 2012 18:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's not a bad point, but it's an interesting one to see coming from someone who sprays so much verbal diarrhea in interviews and who has often engaged in projects like a series of EPs every few months that seem to be partially engineered to constantly hold fans' attention.

some dude, Friday, 4 May 2012 19:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

i was actually just wondering whether any artist whose appearance on the scene came anytime in the recent past could ever really become a "legend" on the level of a Keith Richards or John Lennon (or even a Billy Corgan), just because of the changes in the dynamics of the industry and the music-consuming public.

Poliopolice, Friday, 4 May 2012 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

no. A contemporary legend is that teenager who was singing "Friday" last year.

World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

The number of artists fully formed in the internet era that have lasted more than a couple of years does seem pretty small in my mind, but maybe I'm not thinking of some people. I guess Kanye and Lady Gaga are the first things that spring to mind as purely 21st century "legends." Pretty sure they don't do the kinds of record sales that equivalent stars would have done 20 years ago.

The other thing Corgan said that I thought was maybe obvious but needs to be said more is that consumers' willingness to pay anything at all for recorded music has been kind of irreversibly eroded, and that the result is kind of a net loss of revenue.

Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's probably going to have to keep eroding to the point where a lot of artists either hang it up altogether or switch to some sort of diffuse patronage model. I think the message being sent is less that music has literally no monetary value to people than it is that a business model largely favoring the music labels is no longer sustainable.

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean, a-doy. But still. Needs to be said more and all that.

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, also recorded music literally has no monetary value to people

I'M THAT POSTA, AAAAAAAAAH (DJP), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think the message being sent is less that music has literally no monetary value to people than it is that a business model largely favoring the music labels is no longer sustainable.

― You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, May 4, 2012 3:31 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

IDK this just sounds like the same pat line we keep hearing and it doesn't seem to have proven true. Big labels are sustainable, artists are not.

Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost

Yeah, at this juncture that's true, but I'm positing a point in the not-too-distant future where music largely stops being recorded and subsequently sold because the market can no longer sustain it. At that point, recorded music may find a niche where it does have monetary value to a (probably much smaller but likely also more fanatical) number of people.

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

basically, the volume of musical choices available to us as any given time has come to a point where there's far, far more supply than demand, creating a buyer's market whose magnitude has previously never existed. music is a commodity at this point.

Poliopolice, Friday, 4 May 2012 19:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

xpost

I.e. welcome to the world enjoyed by much of the rest of the arts, Music.

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

well, also recorded music literally has no monetary value to people

^^^^^

hate how this gets elided all the time

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think a better way to put it is not that it has no value, but rather that something has to prove its value to a consumer first, and it's really hard for anything to do that given the glut of alternatives people have just one click away not only in the realm of music, but any kind of entertainment.

Poliopolice, Friday, 4 May 2012 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

how does a product "prove its value"

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 May 2012 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

by being good, making a positive impression, creating a sense that someone may want to revisit it, etc

Poliopolice, Friday, 4 May 2012 19:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think even that happens. I have albums that I've gotten for free that are great and I have not gone back and paid for them after the fact.

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

Because you actually got the tracks in your possession, instead of just getting a taste of them. It might be different if you heard them on the radio, or in a video game, or in a commercial. For example, I bet that Fun song that was shoved down our throats for the past few months racked up a ton of sales.

Poliopolice, Friday, 4 May 2012 20:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

In the future, recorded music will be subsidized by wealthy patrons and you will only be able to listen to it while in some sort of museum.

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think there's any reason to think that "recorded music" will become less available, just that it will be less monetizable.

Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

not looking forward to the 'fourth wave of ska' wing at the moma

Philip Nunez, Friday, 4 May 2012 20:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

but it's an interesting one to see coming from someone who sprays so much verbal diarrhea in interviews and who has often engaged in projects like a series of EPs every few months that seem to be partially engineered to constantly hold fans' attention.

maybe that's Corgan's partial answer to why he is so bad and hated these days

Mad God 40/40 (Z S), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

ha true

some dude, Friday, 4 May 2012 20:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

he actually even made some reference to his being bad and hated in the interview, a kind of awkward metaphor about how he's the nba player who everyone hates but grabs a lot of rebounds

Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 May 2012 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't think there's any reason to think that "recorded music" will become less available, just that it will be less monetizable.

That 'music museums' idea kinda glosses over some of the steps in my logical leap. To clarify my argument, I'm talking about recorded popular music (i.e. not stuff like classical which already has a form of patronage in place). Major labels will, at a point, tire of pouring money down the recorded music drain, and once they realize that suing potential customers only nets them a fraction of the revenue they've historically made, they'll cut way back on something. Whether that 'something' is marketing or artists' pay or the number of artists on their roster, the amount and influence of recorded output from major labels will probably diminish significantly (if not disappear altogether) in our lifetimes. To the extent that the majors cease to be much of a viable option (i.e. the extent to which musicians can basically forget about livin' like a pimp), you'll see a lot of people who don't really give a shit pulling out of the game altogether, while the people who do give a shit and/or who have a solid fanbase that does value their recorded output monetarily to some extent will continue on via other routes (e.g. Kickstarter, Bandcamp, etc.). This will basically be the 'folk/outsider' branch of tomorrow's recorded music, with the majors' increasingly-meager output forming a second branch. The likely third branch (to the extent that musicians secure forward-thinking managers and arts patrons see a dying creative industry that will need financial assistance to become more) will be the 'fine arts' branch. If incessant touring becomes the only other option for musicians to make a buck, I can see a lot of musical acts going in a sort of 'more accessible Laurie Anderson' direction (multimedia, performance-based work that caters to a gallery or pseudo-museum setting), even if only to appeal to an audience with deeper pockets who will keep them fed. I mean, I don't know how accurate my predicting will be, but sustaining a music career in the future is definitely gonna be all about sussing out alternative business models.

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 4 May 2012 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

On the flipside, sort of, I've often wondered what it takes to knock a band down a few notches after they've hit it big. Like, will Gotye ever play a small venue again? Phoenix? MGMT? Interpol? Whomever? How many crappy albums would it take to do so? Because I can't think of any band in recent memory that has been demoted, though I can think of several whose ascent has been pretty fast.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 May 2012 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

in the future? it's already like that

xp

Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 4 May 2012 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i remember making a similar observation a while back, when MGMT made that album people really seemed to dislike but their career didn't suffer at all for it. i can't remember the last serious 'sophomore slump' in rock/alternative circles where the act really seemed to lose half their audience or whatever.

some dude, Friday, 4 May 2012 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

what size venues does mgmt usually play to begin with though?

Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 May 2012 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

in the future? it's already like that

Man, Yauch and the major labels all on the same day...

You Don't Throw Oranges On An Escalator (Deric W. Haircare), Friday, 4 May 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

i can't remember the last serious 'sophomore slump' in rock/alternative circles where the act really seemed to lose half their audience or whatever.

that's because bands and albums are not the currency of relevancy anymore; it's songs. And as long as those songs are in circulation (ipods, video games, commercials, etc.) they have currency. there are more venues for songs to be in circulation now than ever before, and the more share they have of these venues, the more currency they have. bands per se are almost irrelevant.

Poliopolice, Friday, 4 May 2012 21:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's an interesting point.

One band that kind of sprung to mind while I was listening to Corgan talk about social media and the net not panning out so well for artists was Ok Go -- a band that I don't particularly like, but that seems to be able to keep making money from a brand built not, I don't think, on albums at all, but on a stream of clever individual videos and clever live shows that dovetail with the videos. And people will keep going to see that band, at least for a while, because it's kind of more like going to see Blue Man Group or Stomp! or something, although I don't doubt that their fans actually like their music too.

Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 4 May 2012 21:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

And that band is a great example. I don't think anyone who watches those videos, whether it be fans or casual viewers, give a flying fuck who is in that band. Probably the entire band could be replaced and no one would care. They know the band as OK GO and that's about it. They're there for the spectacle and the entertainment, and if anyone's watching it, it's because at that particular moment, the spectacle is better than some other spectacle available at that moment.

Poliopolice, Friday, 4 May 2012 21:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

cannot think the words "the world is a vampire" unless recited in corgan's snarl. absolutely cannot.

kelpolaris, Friday, 4 May 2012 22:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

Do you find yourself thinking those words in other contexts?

Ned Raggett, Friday, 4 May 2012 22:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

Everytime I see Billy Corgan, I'm reminded of the video he did for his band Hexen, probably years before the Pumpkins. It's hard to hate him after that, even as pompous as he often comes across.

James Iha is still what made that band tick.

Matt M., Friday, 4 May 2012 23:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

James Iha is still what made that band tick tolerable.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 5 May 2012 13:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

I said that as a guy who is most distinctly not a fan of the band.

Matt M., Saturday, 5 May 2012 15:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's because bands and albums are not the currency of relevancy anymore; it's songs. And as long as those songs are in circulation (ipods, video games, commercials, etc.) they have currency.

So it's like the 60's all over again, where a band could have one or two hit singles and tour the oldies circuit more or less indefinitely. If that's the case then I really don't have a problem with it, FWIW.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 5 May 2012 18:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

recorded music is still absolutely monetizable but the money is, always has been, always will be in the carrier.

yo just a couple (Matt P), Saturday, 5 May 2012 18:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

or controlling the carrier, more accurately.

yo just a couple (Matt P), Saturday, 5 May 2012 18:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

i wholly & unironically support this

death and darkness and other night kinda shit (crüt), Tuesday, 18 February 2014 21:15 (7 months ago) Permalink

very excited for a recording

i also enjoy in line skateing (spazzmatazz), Tuesday, 18 February 2014 21:52 (7 months ago) Permalink

Love the photo with this article:

In that Corgan has the dazed look of a man who doesn't realize that everyone else behind is not the original line-up, precisely because he doesn't remember driving them all away.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 18 February 2014 21:55 (7 months ago) Permalink

haha, also i like how a pumpkins fan who checked out 20 years ago could see that photo and think "okay, yea, i don't remember the rest of the band looking like that but i guess they're the same members"

marcos, Tuesday, 18 February 2014 22:04 (7 months ago) Permalink

I won't be impressed until he submits a life-size sculpture of himself made out of butter for judging in the Iowa State Fair

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 19 February 2014 00:57 (7 months ago) Permalink

Live Stream Billy Corgan's Eight-Hour Ambient Jam Inspired by Siddhartha:

Anyone else watching this and following Dan Lopatin's live tweets? I guess this is suddenly my Friday night...

MikoMcha, Friday, 28 February 2014 20:10 (7 months ago) Permalink


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