― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:06 (twenty years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Ally (mlescaut), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:09 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:11 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:12 (twenty years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:16 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:19 (twenty years ago) link
Not that I don't have that reaction now. (In fact, probably more so after hanging out with you folks for the last few months.) But one thing that I am more inclined to think about now is the idea of "obligation" to one's readership. Kogan discusses how writing in a hallway-style is more similar to actual readers' lives. On principle, I'd agree. But shit, I tried reading that "Disco-Tex" essay and had no fucking clue what Kogan was talking about. Even though I generally think criticism would we wise to admit more personal/anecdotal content and more conversational style, I worry that this can be taken to an extreme and thus rendered not useful. (I also allow for the possibility that I gave up too easily, wasn't willing to meet Kogan on his own terms, etc.)
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:20 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:21 (twenty years ago) link
(since it's published on my website and all)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:35 (twenty years ago) link
(jamie conway's Big Second-hand Theory of Theory is more interesting for the nine tenths it leaves out)
"a clear idea is a little idea"
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 16:43 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 23 May 2003 17:14 (twenty years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 23 May 2003 17:15 (twenty years ago) link
So here is my argument against it: occasionally people who are bad (as in unconfident?) writers happen on a *good* new idea about something — or let's say the door through to a good new idea — which they then lose hold of, and they squish the life from it as they try and turn what they're saying into someone else's conception of good/clear writing (sort of the same as lots of rock bands get more ordinary the "better" they get at what they do). Intuitions w/o showing the working aren't intrinsically an anti-communicative idea (in fact I suspect "showing the working" generally needs difft kinds of expressive skills to "bold state the intuition", tho some are good at both, obv).
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 17:37 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 17:41 (twenty years ago) link
― jel -- (jel), Friday, 23 May 2003 17:47 (twenty years ago) link
Fucking hell, I live inside that paragraph.
― s woods (s woods), Friday, 23 May 2003 17:59 (twenty years ago) link
― dave q, Friday, 23 May 2003 18:06 (twenty years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 23 May 2003 18:11 (twenty years ago) link
besides, if it's a BAD idea unclearly expressed you can always misread it yrself, and enjoy the better idea yr actually projecting onto it!!
it's win-win!!
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 18:19 (twenty years ago) link
trans. = "osmotic alien tongue pressure")
(this shd really go on the kuhn thread)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 18:30 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Friday, 23 May 2003 18:32 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 20:30 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 20:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 23 May 2003 20:42 (twenty years ago) link
(since I wasn't trying to dispel anything nor leave you w/a greater appreciation of criticism, YOUR criticism is empty and petty)
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 20:43 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 20:44 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 May 2003 20:49 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 20:53 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 23 May 2003 20:54 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 21:46 (twenty years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 23 May 2003 21:55 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 23 May 2003 22:14 (twenty years ago) link
not so for us mere finite lower beings, who wish to find out about stuff we know that we don't know, and are only too humbly aware that we may need to think about things we've never thought about before
does he just hang around with us to LAUGH at us? baffling are the ways of the arching gods to mortals
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 22:41 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:08 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:23 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:28 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:32 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:37 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:39 (twenty years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:40 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:42 (twenty years ago) link
night oops (i'm on yr side on the war against boys thread btw)
― mark s (mark s), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:44 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 May 2003 23:47 (twenty years ago) link
― scott seward, Friday, 23 May 2003 23:57 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Saturday, 24 May 2003 05:54 (twenty years ago) link