"We're cool with the subjugation of women but God forbid they have to cover their hair, that's insanity!".
― joygoat, Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:46 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the selective appearance of feminism in conservative rhetoric whenever islam comes into view is seriously the most annoying thing
― goole, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:51 (twelve years ago) link
again I think there are certain limitations to 'assimilated as white' that come inherent w/ the way people look.
like I'm half arab-jewish and am a bit darker than 'average white person' and my dad is quite certainly 'not white'. but I pass as white. mostly.
and if my dad were from africa, that would not be the case.
― iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:51 (twelve years ago) link
I guess I'd rather have the Catholic theocracy than the Protestant as there would be a higher probability of having booze around, though either would still allow for ham on Easter.
― joygoat, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:53 (twelve years ago) link
it's second-most annoying behind selectively quoting passages from the Qu'ran without textual or cultural context
― Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:53 (twelve years ago) link
again I think there are certain limitations to 'assimilated as white' that come inherent w/ the way people look. yeah, sure. i think you're wrong, though, that that's all it's about when it comes to say, asian americans. there's a whole unstable incoherent mythology that comes into play.
for the way this has worked historically see walter benn michaels article "the difference between white men and white men."
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
I don't think that's all it's about! I just think it's not something you can completely discount.
― iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
you have no idea if this is true or not
― Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
and in the case of the yemenis on the corner these days, it's less about their skin color (some of them look "white," some don't) than about the fact that the women are wearing headscarves.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
well yeah, it depends and 'passing as white' would not be unrelated to the actual darkness of my skin.
xp
― iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
i pass pretty easily as white
― max, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:02 (twelve years ago) link
I AM DESCENDED FROM THE FIRST WHITE WOMAN BORN IN NORTH AMERICA
THE FIRST
WHITE
WOMAN
― max, Tuesday, February 15, 2011 4:38 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:03 (twelve years ago) link
PM me if u want an autograph
― max, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:04 (twelve years ago) link
i working on a book, Whites: an Anatomy that's going to clear all this up, fyi.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:05 (twelve years ago) link
please show me an example of "passing as white" that is unrelated to the actual darkness of the person's skin
― Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:11 (twelve years ago) link
no he's agreeing with you about that
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:11 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― goole, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:11 (twelve years ago) link
all i'm saying is that there's a non-empirical component to the imagination of whiteness
okay maybe I should get lunch because I don't understand the point iatee is attempting to make at all
― Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:12 (twelve years ago) link
and that in america "whiteness" is imagined against blackness, basically. which affects the history of how non-african/non-african american groups get racialized.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:13 (twelve years ago) link
Dan, i think he was arguing against my cultural studies-ish take on race, that there is something real and observable about people's perceptions of race.
which is true, but people like to think of it as stabler and more empirical than it is.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:14 (twelve years ago) link
don't think asian americans are viewed by white people as white
― horseshoe, Tuesday, February 28, 2012 12:43 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark
this is true - couldn't tell you how many times I've been asked "oh, so when did you move to america?" ffs I was born here.
although you'd have to ask a third or fourth gen AA to be sure. wonder what stories gary locke has to tell
― flagp∞st (dayo), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:15 (twelve years ago) link
I guess it's a natural question to ask when you own up to the fact that you have never watched an episode of dawson's creek in your life
yeah I think it's different in california actually, like I have been in groups that included asian people and the group was referred to as 'white people'
― iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:16 (twelve years ago) link
haha i put that a lot more mildly than i meant it. i have been told by white people that they don't even think of me as not being white before and i always think, you're lying.
xxp
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:16 (twelve years ago) link
i feel like what they mean is "i don't group you in my mind with scary blacks and latinos" which is NOT THE SAME THING
lmao there is nothing funnier than white people fronting like they are not constantly thinking about race
― max, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
Whiteness is not imagined against blackness explicitly; whiteness is imagined against "non-whiteness", which usually defaults to "the darkest person in the neighborhood whom I'm not used to seeing around all of the time".
xp: those last two horseshoe posts OTM
― Vaseline MEN AMAZING JOURNEY (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:17 (twelve years ago) link
"I don't even think of you as non-white!" is such dumb, loaded, offensive bullshit
― Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
yeah horseshoe is killing it itt
― flagp∞st (dayo), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
yeah i should have said that more precisely. whiteness v blackness is historically freighted in the american context.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
i have a lot of thoughts, guys. and a lot of coffee.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:19 (twelve years ago) link
plus my "someone is talking about muslims on ilx" alarm went off
where's louis when you need him
― Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
"I don't see people as color, just in images of black and white."
― pplains, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:22 (twelve years ago) link
― horseshoe, Tuesday, February 28, 2012 1:18 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
circling closer to what i mean, i feel like anti-black racist ideology necessitated the birth of "whiteness" in america.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:23 (twelve years ago) link
at the same time there also is a (multiple) 'white culture'(s) which 'whiteness' is tied to (and the aforementioned literal 'white-ness')
basically this is a subject for which we need more words
― iatee, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:27 (twelve years ago) link
I said something inadvertently racist yesterday and I felt bad about it
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
but it is always going to be difficult to be precise about whiteness as long as it's both an observable reality about a person's, i don't know, "phenotype" and an imaginary category of racelessness deployed in racist ideology.
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
yeah but all those multiple white cultures get collapsed into one when posited against 'non-whiteness' xp
― flagp∞st (dayo), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
I could post a dozen face-palms that I've pulled on myself in the past month.
― pplains, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
is anyone talking about this subject now itt "white"
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
haha sorry
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:35 (twelve years ago) link
so obsessed with whites!
tell your story, please
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:36 (twelve years ago) link
I'm scared 2
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:40 (twelve years ago) link
guys this is nice and all but i don't "see race"
― ploppawheelie V (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:48 (twelve years ago) link
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, February 28, 2012 1:40 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i say a lot of racist things, so theoretically i could keep you company, but i immediately block them out so as to keep up my busy schedule of self-righteousness :/
― horseshoe, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:50 (twelve years ago) link
A person only has much time.
― drawn to them like a moth toward a spanakopita (Laurel), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:51 (twelve years ago) link
"I'm racist btw"
― Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Tuesday, 28 February 2012 18:51 (twelve years ago) link