Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

"i got debts that no honest man can pay"--that's one of the best lines in the song!

xpost you people must have the Sucka MC version of the song.

-- frankE (frankeeeeeeee...) (webmail), August 12th, 2004 12:56 AM. (frankE) (later) (link)

see dude that's the key that unlocks the door that opens onto the hallway of clarity which leads to the cafeteria of total enlightenment.

Dissect Glory Days, also.

glory days is about greg maddux i think.

carrying on from my conversation w/mr. diamond on the gbv thread abt elder michaux.... and mr. diamond's angry comments about understanding (rock) music as well.

lyrics aren't just about words. hell, speech isn't just about words. speech is cadence, intonation, emphasis. sometimes--most of the time--those cadences, intonations, emphases, etc. carry meaning...
the line between spoken speech and singing isn't a hard and fast one... so it seems absurd to me to divorce the two, to imply that lyrics can be divorced from music and discounted as a part of the whole package. actually i think studying the musical qualities of the spoken word would go a long ways to getting anyone to appreciate the significance of singing in song. so, yeah, if you "don't listen to lyrics" you're gonna miss a lot of springsteen. a lot of nearly everything. i guess that's what frustrates me a lot, ned, since your obstinance-in-tastes seems to resemble willful ignorance a lot of the time. sorry to be so harsh about it. again, there's no reason you need to like springsteen, there's no reason you even need to appreciate the multifarious functions of words in song, but it's a damn shame if you don't.

My favorite line is "put on your stockings 'cause the night's gettin' cold," which collapses all the song's betrayal (his, hers, the world's) and sense of inevitability, not just the words but how he sings them, it's the darkest moment in the song.

that's an interesting take on it, spittle. (i feel weird addressing anyone as "spittle," even over the interweb.)

I agree about the first half of the bridge, it's weak melodically and it has that wack "with you forever I'll stay" construction.

It's interesting because we approach this specific element -- ie, *how* something is sung -- from different viewpoints while prioritizing its importance. In my case, it's less one of how that influences the vocabulary as to how it adds to the music -- there's the quality (however defined) of the voice but also how said voice reacts with/reacts against the backing -- or even how well it sounds on its own, a capella.

i guess that's what frustrates me a lot, ned, since your obstinance-in-tastes seems to resemble willful ignorance a lot of the time. sorry to be so harsh about it. again, there's no reason you need to like springsteen, there's no reason you even need to appreciate the multifarious functions of words in song, but it's a damn shame if you don't.

You may call it what you like and that's fine, but I will still argue that there is no one way to listen to a song -- which we do seem to be agreeing on -- and that there no monopoly in how you get what works (or what doesn't) out of a song as a result. I note you weren't entirely happy with it yourself, but your parody of the Pumpkins thread above is inaccurate because in that exchange if someone said that to me regarding the lyrics, I wouldn't then be trying to argue against that stance in such a fashion. Tons of people have noted to me in turn that they just really don't like Corgan's voice and that's also fine, and so forth. I just don't think it's a 'damn shame,' or any sort of shame, to approach one's likes or dislikes musically in those fashions. It's not willful ignorance in my mind if you focus in on or completely not concentrate on something that I feel in an opposite manner about, it's *how you hear the song* -- and that differs.

I suspect we'll be going in circles if we continue any further, though -- if we're not already!

my take is he's agreed to go down in a prizefight. what dies and may come back is his self-respect.

incidentally the line that per springsteen's website is "sometimes it's like someone took a knife baby edgy and dull and cut a six-inch valley through the middle of my soul" i always heard as "sometimes it's like someone took a knife baby edgy and dull and cut a six-inch valley through the middle of my skull"--i like my mishearing better, because the image is so grotesque and powerful and i've always been distrustful of springsteen when he uses concepts like "soul."

now i really want to hear tara jane o'neil's version.

I think Ally's sarcastic comment about Born in the USA as an "overlooked classic" is actually true. I've been listening to a lot of Springsteen lately (inspired by Kerry) and to me it sounds like BY FAR his best record. But I know plenty of Springsteen fanatics (of which I'm not one) and none of them seem to agree. Nebraska and Darkness and Born to Run (which I think is both overstated and overrated, though I LUV "Thunder Road") seem to be more popular picks.

I'd try to say something pithy in support of Born in the USA, but it's easier just to cut-and-paste one of the most on-point Consumer Guide entries Christgau ever wrote:

Born in the USA [Columbia, 1984]
Imperceptible though the movement has been to many sensitive young people, Springsteen has evolved. In fact, this apparent retrenchment is his most rhythmically propulsive, vocally incisive, lyrically balanced, and commercially undeniable album. Even his compulsive studio habits work for him: the aural vibrancy of the thing reminds me like nothing in years that what teenagers loved about rock and roll wasn't that it was catchy or even vibrant but that it just plain sounded good. And while Nebraska's one-note vision may be more left-correct, my instincts (not to mention my leftism) tell me that this uptempo worldview is truer. Hardly ride-off-into-the-sunset stuff, at the same time it's low on nostalgia and beautiful losers. Not counting the title powerhouse, the best songs slip by at first because their tone is so lifelike: the fast-stepping "Working on the Highway," which turns out to be about a country road gang: "Darlington County," which pins down the futility of a macho spree without undercutting its exuberance; and "Glory Days," which finally acknowledges that among other things, getting old is a good joke. A+

which is why my favorite album of his is the home-recorded nebraska, as i probably said somewhere way upthread. i do like the production on tunnel of love, but the songs on that are hit-and-miss. and i'm in love with the guitar sounds throughout the river. and i hate every synth patch he's ever used.

xpost

that's super cool

http://www.booktrail.com/Video_SelfDefense/Winning%20A%20Street%20Knife%20Fight.jpg

(this was certified true as of about a year ago, and i assume it's still true, but i can't give it my official fact checking certification.)