things you're secretly kinda libertariany about

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I'm pro-arts but in the U.S. the pro-arts position isn't articulated well. It's a fair question to ask how the U.S. in general benefits from, say, the funding of European classical programs. I think our country surely benefits from support for American cultural endeavors like jazz or folk music programs. I don't think our democracy has any substance, however, without educational programming.

โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Trucks of my Tears (Mount Cleaners), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 13:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's a fair question to ask how the U.S. in general benefits from, say, the funding of European classical programs. I think our country surely benefits from support for American cultural endeavors like jazz or folk music programs.

this strikes me as a very strange and sort of jingoistic thing to say. people and cultures can benefit from art/the arts whether or not the work in question is entirely "homegrown".

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Smoking in pubs should be allowed. FFS!

The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's interesting how many smokers seem to think that

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also at this stage aren't they (classical / jazz / folk) mostly "things you only do if someone's paying you to"?

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, living in a non-smoking country is a joy, tbph

NV- i was kind of agreeing with you on 'gotta spend it somehow, opera won't kill anyone'

beware of greek bearer bonds (darraghmac), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

you can replace 'opera' w/ any other form of music there tho

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm against funding for classical music because I hate old people

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't see how my statement is either strange or jingoistic when the same "argument" can be found in the mission statements of many American cultural organizations. Public interest is what justifies arts funding whether it is public or private. For example, PBS support for Ken Burns. Is Ken Burns stuff jingoistic or are documentaries about jazz, Frank Lloyd Wright and Prohibition globally as well as domestically relevant?

โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Trucks of my Tears (Mount Cleaners), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

being 'libertariany' about zoning should really go in the fascisty thread -- basically you want to remove all local power over land use in favor of a larger body or plan.

it's less land-use restrictive but very politically restrictive, if that makes sense. nimby politics are like the most ancient kind of politics.

― Critique of Pure Moods (goole), Monday, February 13, 2012 2:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

naw being able to do what u want on YOUR LAND w/o yr neighbors saying shit is the heart of libertarianism, of course thats not really why i want zoning relaxed, but then im not libertarian

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 14:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

Question: if the majority of pub patrons wanted pubs to be non-smoking, why didn't enterprising landlords open hugely successful no-smoking pubs before the smoking ban came into play?

(i actually quite like my little walks outside to meet new and interesting and cool people who smoke tbh but still)

dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

because large groups of people are likely to have at least one smoker who's gonna bitch about it

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

plus it wouldn't be as 'cool' as the other bars

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's like they had a non-smoking casino in vegas, it went nowhere, but everyone can agree that casinos in vegas are the most disgusting smelling thing in the universe. still, nobody wants to party in the mormon casino.

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

people who smoke are cool by default.

The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

smoking is bad for you

max, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

people didnt realize how much they liked it until after the law was in effect

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Smoking in pubs should be allowed. FFS!

― The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:40 AM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's interesting how many smokers seem to think that

― iatee, Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:41 AM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i am a nonsmoker, and i think smoking in bars should be legal, so long as there are dedicated, well-ventilated spaces for it. along with dedicated, well-ventilated spaces for nonsmokers.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

actually I'd prefer if they had to do it in a small enclosed room

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

o you don't like the smoke I thought you liked smoke

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

the fascist thread is over there btw

dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is the libertarian thread I do what I want

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

they can smoke but they have to keep all the smoke inside them until theyre outside

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Vaguely remember an article from like 10 years ago about how the problem with getting kids not to start smoking isn't that "smoking" is cool, it's that SMOKERS are cool (or "cool" to 12yos or w/e).

one little aioli (Laurel), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's cos we just don't care

dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

All smokers have to wear 1950s-style bubble space helmets all the time and their car windows are locked permanently in the "up" position.

The Large Hardon Collider (Phil D.), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

not giving a fuck isnt cool you know whats cool listening to the government

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

dunno if you guys knew this but smoking is bad for you, and for the people who are around you when youre smoking

max, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

The smoking ban has ruined fun in our town - especially music venues. As a promoter, it's basically impossible to keep a room full because everyone's outside smoking, and even the non-smokers stand outside with their mates. So between acts the place is basically empty, this ruins the atmosphere and then people stop coming to live shows because all they do is stand outside, so it's not worth the cost of the ticket. Most of the venues and pubs don't even have the means to create comfortable smoking areas so smoking queues just spill out all over the shop creating excessive litter, extraneous noise, not to mention an inconvenience for people trying to get past. There was a noticeable number of pubs and venues that had to close or have their live music license revoked within a year or so of the smoking ban.

Plus, for fuck's sake - pubs are supposed to be dens of sin. You should be able to smoke in them.

The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

sounds like a lot of people in england should quit smoking then

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

put the bands outside problem solved

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am a nonsmoker, and i think smoking in bars should be legal, so long as there are dedicated, well-ventilated spaces for it. along with dedicated, well-ventilated spaces for nonsmokers.

― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:06 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This.

The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

people stop coming to live shows because all they do is stand outside, so it's not worth the cost of the ticket.

do these people understand what a live show is?

ledge, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

lag∞n, you've never been to the uk huh?

The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

lag∞n is actually prince charles

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

do these people understand what a live show is?

― ledge, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:11 (16 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

?

The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

for real tho the smoking ban is really a workplace safety issue, like you couldnt have a factory thats full of smoke

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

i think that is the truest answer tbh

dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

i would pay good money to remain outside many music venues

mark s, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't see how my statement is either strange or jingoistic when the same "argument" can be found in the mission statements of many American cultural organizations. Public interest is what justifies arts funding whether it is public or private. For example, PBS support for Ken Burns. Is Ken Burns stuff jingoistic or are documentaries about jazz, Frank Lloyd Wright and Prohibition globally as well as domestically relevant?

sure, but public interest can be served by the support of homegrown art forms as well as arts that have their roots elsewhere. suggesting that we cut funding for ostensibly "european" art forms in favor of "american" ones strikes me as at least slightly suspect. supporting homegrown art and art forms /= jingoism, but specifically opposing the funding of not-officially-homegrown stuff does seem to slide in that direction.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sure it's not worth the cost of the ticket if you're not actually gonna like go inside and see the band.

People who think live shows are primarily a place to hang out with their mates should be killed, basically.

xp to dl

ledge, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also, they're going to so much trouble covering up the cigarette installations in off-licences and supermarkets, and yet smokers are encouraged to display their bad habits to all and sundry on pub doorsteps. FFFUU---

The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

lag∞n, you've never been to the uk huh?

― The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:12 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i meant put the band outside of the pub next to the smokers on the sidewalk or wee footpath or w/e tf u call it

lag∞n, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

for real tho the smoking ban is really a workplace safety issue, like you couldnt have a factory thats full of smoke

you could probably have a factory that was full of smoke if it was a smoke factory. servers could wear oxygen masks if they're so worried about their "health", problem solved.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

dunno if you guys knew this but smoking is bad for you, and for the people who are around you when youre smoking

this is libertarian thread, point is not to care abt other people's problems

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

Sure it's not worth the cost of the ticket if you're not actually gonna like go inside and see the band.

People who think live shows are primarily a place to hang out with their mates should be killed, basically.

xp to dl

― ledge, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:14 (13 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, that's exactly the point. The club I promote at has a flight of steps leading from the main entrance. First band comes off, everyone goes outside to smoke/chat, next band comes on to an empty room. Basically the whole venue never fills up because a good chunk of audience are wrapped up in a conversation outside, not knowing that the next band has started. I'm talking about smaller, local gigs in a medium-sized town here where fledgling bands need all the support they can get.

The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

i am a nonsmoker, and i think smoking in bars should be legal, so long as there are dedicated, well-ventilated spaces for it. along with dedicated, well-ventilated spaces for nonsmokers.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:06 (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

We tried this for a while in Maryland before banning smoking outright.

getting good with gulags (beachville), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

wee footpath or w/e tf u call it

jho you are a gifted troll. Hats off to you in this instance, you are the most annoying ever.

one little aioli (Laurel), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

it sounds like people are lame in the uk more than the laws are lame

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

there are smoking bans in america and nightlife and fun still exists, we made it happen

iatee, Tuesday, 14 February 2012 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink


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