...its not just being organized, there are power dynamics at work here
...you say its 'organization' but its not -- there are many dynamics at play
...i think its easy to see how economics and gender and race probably played roles in distorting how we remember history in that way
― D-40, Thursday, February 9, 2012 2:51 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i don't think you're really arguing against me there. i agree with everything you say. i defend the word "organized" because i think the maintenance of the canon is done is a fairly organized fashion. this isn't to deny that there are other dynamics in play, that things like gender and race play a HUGE part.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Thursday, 9 February 2012 23:01 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://www.amazon.com/How-Beatles-Destroyed-Rock-Roll/dp/019975697X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328828397&sr=1-1
i probably should, thanks for the tip. but again (and it's hard to say without having read it), but even anti-canonical perspectives help build the canon, right? either by expanding it or by providing it with alternatives to triumph over. at this point, it's been so widened by appeals to inclusion that it's become all but meaningless, a history that includes almost everything. simple efficiency is arguably a bigger motivator for the creation of alternative canons the the failure of the larger of The Canon to adapt.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Thursday, 9 February 2012 23:07 (1 year ago) Permalink
god that was fucked. though it's poor form, i'm just gonna try again...
you should really read this book, contenderizer
i probably should, thanks for the tip. but again (and it's hard to say without having read it), even anti-canonical perspectives help build the canon, right? either by expanding it or by providing it with alternatives to triumph over. at this point, the "official" canon been so widened by appeals to inclusion that it's become all but meaningless, a history that encompasses all of history. simple efficiency is arguably a bigger motivator for the creation of alternative canons than the failure of Thee Canon to adapt.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Thursday, 9 February 2012 23:09 (1 year ago) Permalink
people really do seriously rep for the enduring importance and quality of like shakespeare, joyce and dostoyevsky, though. it's really no different than putting leadbelly and led zep up on a pedestal.
it's quite different actually imo
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 9 February 2012 23:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah come on...joyce is way better than led zep. ffs.
― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Thursday, 9 February 2012 23:37 (1 year ago) Permalink
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Thursday, 9 February 2012 23:45 (1 year ago) Permalink
well i think its also important to note that there a bunch of sites and magazines and big national newspapers whose critics all share somewhat of a similar aesthetic sensibility that can work to codify the new tv canon whereas music criticism is becoming more fractured and specialized.
Agree with this 100% but I think this critical consensus in itself is a product of the developments I identified in my preceding post.
― Tim F, Thursday, 9 February 2012 23:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
How will format effect today's youth digesting of the canon, whatever the canon includes or excludes? I mean I have a cousin who is getting into music and he's 15. He will probably never buy a cd or a record and thinks I'm very weird for collecting record when I could be like him and just download what I want. I imagine him as an example of the future average music consumer. I always thought of the canon as being a package type deal, format and all. What bearing does the canon have on someone who thinks of music as only disposable singles? I imagine very little. I dunno, this probably has nothing to do with kaputt or LES.
― JacobSanders, Friday, 10 February 2012 00:10 (1 year ago) Permalink
well, i think that canon has only ever really mattered to the sort of people who attach a lot of significance to the idea that certain types of music more "important" than others, and/or those who wish to have "good taste". people like that tend to look to voices of authority for guidance, sometimes even aspiring to join the ranks of the tastemaking arbiters.
music fans who aren't concerned with those things will probably have little interest in canonical importance or quality.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Friday, 10 February 2012 00:20 (1 year ago) Permalink
i kind of disagree, i think lots of people are or have been concerned with those things! people want to have 'good taste'
― D-40, Friday, 10 February 2012 00:23 (1 year ago) Permalink
or see themselves as discerning
yeah, i know. i was breaking it down to canon people vs "don't give a shit about a canon" people. not saying that either group is more numerous, and lots of folks are obviously somewhere in the middle.
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Friday, 10 February 2012 00:26 (1 year ago) Permalink
probably most people in the middle, tbh
deej p much 100% otm so far
i listened to the pj harvey album and realised its that thing i always make my housemate turn off in the kitchen when we are cooking. he doesn't really like kaputt either.
― judith, Friday, 10 February 2012 02:13 (1 year ago) Permalink
ah c'cmon, he's just swiping at tangents. grumble, kvetch...
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Friday, 10 February 2012 08:31 (1 year ago) Permalink
man i still can't really get down with bejar's vocals, and there are large portions of kaputt that are a yawner for me and that i have problems with,
but that "sounds, smash hits..." couplet is just all-time. doesn't really scan but perfect. how did he do that?
― dell (del), Sunday, 12 February 2012 07:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
he read a magizine, iirc
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Sunday, 12 February 2012 07:47 (1 year ago) Permalink
Played Kaputt in the car today, every song is a jam.
― Tim F, Sunday, 12 February 2012 11:08 (1 year ago) Permalink
http://sickmouthy.com/2012/02/14/lets-talk-about-destroyer/
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
this thread inspired me to go back to all of PJ Harvey's albums on Spotify
she fucking owns
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:42 (1 year ago) Permalink
great post, mouthy.
― ⚓ (gr8080), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 20:50 (1 year ago) Permalink
Obviously this is a drunken thread so this seems extraneous, but Kaputt is very clearly very American and Let England Shake is very clear very English. I like both, a lot, but I prefer PJ's.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Sunday, February 5, 2012 5:05 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
but destroyer isn't american...
this entire episode definitely made the US posters seem more parochial than the UK ones, which i hadn't thought was the case before
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Sunday, February 5, 2012 5:38 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes in a lot of ways kaputt feels very... canadian to me. don't ask me to explain how or why though. peace
― the jazz zinger (s1ocki), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 21:00 (1 year ago) Permalink
Nick that's a wonderful post
― Flag post? I hardly knew her! (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 14 February 2012 21:12 (1 year ago) Permalink
Thanks dude.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 07:56 (1 year ago) Permalink
Dudes.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 07:57 (1 year ago) Permalink
Yeah, just read the blog - nice one sicko, enjoyed it
― The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 08:40 (1 year ago) Permalink
yeah, same here. loved reading that (though i'm still in camp shake).
― Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 08:55 (1 year ago) Permalink
what's that a link to
― desperado, rough rider (thomp), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 10:03 (1 year ago) Permalink
hm.
― desperado, rough rider (thomp), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 10:04 (1 year ago) Permalink
can i just take a moment to laugh at whoever compared pj harvey to ts eliot
― desperado, rough rider (thomp), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 10:34 (1 year ago) Permalink
hey they both have initials
― dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 10:36 (1 year ago) Permalink
So does JFK.
― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 10:41 (1 year ago) Permalink
I'd been wondering why I'd suddenly got lots of people following me on Twitter.
― The Invisible Superstars (dog latin), Wednesday, 15 February 2012 11:01 (1 year ago) Permalink