so tell me, why is Kaputt better or worse than Let England Shake?

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Hey guys, both these albums are alright, but we should really be having a 500 post argument about whether On a Mission or 4 is better instead.

lag∞n affiliated (The Reverend), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 03:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's easy

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 03:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Sounds, Smash Hits, Melody Maker, NME... all sounds like a dream to me..." is like some weird inversion of what Kevin Rowland's doing on Too-Rye-Ay; Rowland's literally singing about being in the band, on stage performing or writing / jamming / creating the song, exhorting the musicians to find something pure, etc etc, and Bejar's fantasising, watching bands (in his imagination, based on the music press), wondering what it's like. Perhaps.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's an interesting comparison - Bejar to Neil Tennant / Kevin Rowland to Geno Washington

Laughing Gravy (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bejar's also writing very much from the perspective of someone who is NOT a famous successful mega rich musician; he's not chasing cocaine in the back rooms of the world, nor, I suspect, has he ever - he's a low level indie musician who's been plugging away for 15 years on idiosyncratic records which are acclaimed but which have never crossed over. Whereas Rowland actually was as successful as the people he idolised, if not even more successful in some ways.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

new pornographers have crossed over, no? they play them on all those npr-ish radio stations. sales-wise, they aren't nearly as big, but they seem to have an audience beyond indie-rock.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Whereas Rowland actually was as successful as the people he idolised"

one-hit wonder in the states. but remembered fondly for that one hit. NOBODY here knows the name of the singer from dexy's.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

i've certainly never seen a low level indie musician chasing cocaine

dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah even in the UK Kevin is idolised more than genuinely massive

dayove cool (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

OK, maybe Rowland's not famous as an individual, but Eileen and Geno were MASSIVE hits, both #1 in the UK, and Eileen #1 in the US too; Dexys sold a LOT of records. I'd wager as many as Geno Washington and then some.

And yes, low-level indie musicians can be found chasing cocaine, of course, but I get the sense that Bejar's more writing about the kind of people who fly to gigs on learjets than half a squiff in the toilets of Camden Electric Ballroom.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

xxpost But then he was idolising all these Northern Soul artists who probably didn't make a huge mark in the US and only had a narrow cult following in the UK. Not that that's important.

Laughing Gravy (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Together is the fifth studio album by Canadian indie rock band The New Pornographers. It was released on May 4, 2010[1] and debuted at number 18 on the Billboard 200."

that's pretty good! not arcade fire good, probably, but good.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

even i bought the 45 of come on eileen. that's how huge it was.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

They played "Come On Eileen" at my teen dance club on "progressive night" and all the skinheads would do their weird little dance in a circle.

Laura Lucy Lynn (La Lechera), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

definitely heard it a bunch on college radio at the time before it got huge. like madonna.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Did the Pet Shop Boys live glamorous playboy lifestyles or just fantasize about this? I seem to imagine them as pretty dour people who always carry a macintosh, but I think I remember Tennant saying in an interview that a lot of his music was inspired by a wish to live the Studio 54 lifestyle but never having the chance to. So this is an imaginary culture being sold back and forth across the Atlantic from decade to decade.

Laughing Gravy (dog latin), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

Tennant and Lowe said about twenty years ago that the stereotypes are "largely true." Tennant's apt to stay in with a glass of wine and a Shostakovich CD while Lowe clubs a few nights a week. They're older now though.

Tennant is really a folkie in a not-so-good disguise.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 14:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bejar's not idolising Tennant. He's idolising Ferry, and Screamadelica. These are who he's name checking. We need Mark S to bring the "sounds like" vs "influence" slapdown.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

dour people who always carry a macintosh

Usually dour people I see are carrying Dell laptops.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

lowe - "i'm a mac"
tennant - "i'm a pc"

dave coolier (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

lol

I don't think I can answer this poll because my favorite song literally changes with every listen.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oops. I thought this was the other Kaputt one.

Gonjasufjanstephen O'Malley (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

from deep sea skiving to screamadelica. oh england...so much to answer for.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Bejar's not idolising Tennant. He's idolising Ferry, and Screamadelica. These are who he's name checking. We need Mark S to bring the "sounds like" vs "influence" slapdown.

― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, February 8, 2012 12:35 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and new order. are we really content saying that bejar is "idolizing" these artists and sounds, though? i get the impression that he's using 80s signifiers as a shorthand for the "cinematic" superficiality that ultimately alienates the narrator. this interpretation seems to follow from what judith described earlier: emptiness and longing reflecting emptiness and longing.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 21:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

i get the impression that he's using 80s signifiers as a shorthand for the "cinematic" superficiality that ultimately alienates the narrator. this interpretation seems to follow from what judith described earlier: emptiness and longing reflecting emptiness and longing.

"superficiality that ultimately alienates the narrator" is accurate yet too negative a spin on the vibe at work, I think.

I feel it's more akin to, if you're single or you've just broken up or whatevs, romantic films with happy endings making you as sad those with unhappy endings (lol this makes me think of Jewel's "You Were Meant For Me").

It's not the "emptiness" of the desire that gets the narrator down so much as the impossibility of bringing it to life.

I know there have been times in my life when I've listened to, say, Hats, and I've felt that way, the impossible swell of emotions didn't same fake but it seemed sharply otherworldly, a plenitude in the music that threw into relief a lack in life.

So in a way Kaputt is like listening to someone listening to Hats.

Tim F, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 21:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, that's how i'd read it, too. i don't think that's at odds with the idea that the 80s are being used to shorthand superficiality, the conjuration of heightened worlds that can be seen but not inhabited and the alienation that arises from the discontinuity.

Little GTFO (contenderizer), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I agree with that. I don't mean idolising in the way a teenager would. It's a tool in many ways. I don't doubt he loves Avalon though.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

He adores this sound palette. He loves it. There's no irony or machination there. But he knows how to use it, too, what it signifies.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

So in a way Kaputt is like listening to someone listening to Hats.
do you mean that literally? in the sense that bejar makes music after having listened to and being influenced by hats? hats by the way is probably the one album in the ilm canon which i never "got" at all. there too the singer's voice is very hard to swallow. and the slow & lush music seems even more shallow. kaputt is much easier to digest than hats. just the idea of having to listen to hats drives me nuts.

alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

"So in a way Kaputt is like listening to someone listening to Hats."

oh my god you are demented. but in a good way. its a cool thought.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

i used to embarrass myself a bit listening to that first blue nile album alone in my room as a kid. i had been taught to keep those emotions in check. i wasn't used to hearing declarations of love that were that loud. and naked. i never really learned how to be completely naked. but i appreciated others who were bold in that way.

scott seward, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

i never listened to the lyrics of blue nile. the maudlin voice was like a wall in between the words and my ear. are they really that confessional? usually i love songwriters who seem to be totally open in their songers. like neil young or joni mitchell for example.

alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

songs

alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

Buchanan is a very stark, emotional lyricist, aye.

Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 22:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

So in a way Kaputt is like listening to someone listening to Hats.

do you mean

So in a way listening to Kaputt is like listening to someone listening to Hats.

because otherwise - maybe i am splitting hairs here - you are comparing a work, an artefact with an activity. there is a logical fallacy looming there.

alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 23:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

Listening to Destroyer is like knitting a hat

hmm

pfunkboy (Algerian Goalkeeper), Wednesday, 8 February 2012 23:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

kaputt is a hat listening to a hat
having fun with destroyer...

alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 23:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

do you mean

So in a way listening to Kaputt is like listening to someone listening to Hats.

yes. of course. And I don't mean it literally sounds like that, I was talking about what I perceive to be the album's general emotional content and narrative thrust.

Tim F, Wednesday, 8 February 2012 23:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

i mean, keep up

judith, Thursday, 9 February 2012 00:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

fuck listening to a hat!

/obvious joke

Laughing Gravy (dog latin), Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

everyone on this thread is wrong

junior dada (thomp), Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

even if that means i'm saying mutually exclusive positions with no middle ground are both wrong. they are both wrong. go away. you're wrong.

junior dada (thomp), Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's an album called hats?!?!

fuck all of you who like it

first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

wait what is your job again?

judith, Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

nothing to do with hats

first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's an album by The Blue Nile, lex. superior chill '80s sounds.

omar little, Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

i know what my favoured chill sounds are and they're not what destroyer fans recommend smh

first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

vibe with me, brother (may i call u brother?)

omar little, Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

(i've vaguely intended to get into the blue nile for about a decade now but this episode may have killed that faint intention completely)

first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

would u ask mariah if u could call her brother?!?!

first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Thursday, 9 February 2012 02:18 (2 years ago) Permalink


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