i checked out the sapphire slows at your recommendaysh iirc. it was cool, more shimmering and logic system than the earthy & dubby peaking lights vibe. definitely cool
― flopson, Friday, 3 February 2012 02:40 (twelve years ago) link
w/each successive release i ended up liking spectrum spools less, there was such a monotony of vision to the whole thing that it cheapened even the releases i really liked - container, forma - it hilighted how fadish and current the whole synth haze stuff has been? i mean i really like the no ufos rerelease but its not really making the same gesture '936' is
i thought the jonas reinhardt release on nnf was superb but suffered from the same lack of distinction
― the parable is the parable of the (Lamp), Friday, 3 February 2012 02:41 (twelve years ago) link
agree about 2011 synth boom & bust
― flopson, Friday, 3 February 2012 02:45 (twelve years ago) link
contenderizer's argument is kind of the flipside of mine upthread - put them together and you arrive at the situation where *nobody* gets to dominate and dictate to others what the value of a piece of music is. Which seems right to me.
I agree with this, and further I also think an important part of this process is that people actually fess up to their listening strategies, and say (where necessary) "I'm listening to this through X ears".
I tend to apply dance music biases to a lot of non-dance music, but I like to think that when I do so I will admit as much, and try to position it as "an approach" that captures only a small part of the experience of the music.
Where this process gets pernicious is the cases where it's unacknowleged, where people cross-apply biases and then deny that this is what they're doing because they sincerely believe that the biases they're applying should be the truth of every genre (as if they're even "the truth" of one!).
― Tim F, Friday, 3 February 2012 02:46 (twelve years ago) link
Ha, I think I've heard the Jonas Reinhardt but not sure now. It's hard to keep up!
I agree that Spectrum Spools didn't manage to break out in the way NNF did. Both labels have an identifiable aesthetic that risks repetitiveness - with some NNF releases like the Xander Harris I had a definite feeling it was adding nothing new - but yeah, NNF has better curation, or they've been around longer, or it's a more flexible aesthetic, dunno really but they seem to be better at what they do.
― two lights crew (seandalai), Friday, 3 February 2012 02:49 (twelve years ago) link
weyes blood/jonas r would have been my nnf picks for the year. don't mind peaking lights but got a little tired of it quite quickly
― pun crock (electricsound), Friday, 3 February 2012 02:49 (twelve years ago) link
the only reason i still dont listen to peaking lights all the time is cause my roommate got sick of it
― flopson, Friday, 3 February 2012 02:53 (twelve years ago) link
i like that peaking lights record but i always forget i'm listening to it about halfway through. think i'd dig a remixed version though
― Whiney vs. (BradNelson), Friday, 3 February 2012 03:16 (twelve years ago) link
Btw, I take no shortage of pride in the fact that the top 5 placing rap albums were all from the west coast.
― lag∞n affiliated (The Reverend), Friday, 3 February 2012 03:54 (twelve years ago) link
― Tim F, Thursday, February 2, 2012 6:46 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, this is OTM. when critics who don't ordinarily fw a genre pick some random crossover attempt to champion as the best it can offer - or worse yet, as "transcending" the genre - it's annoying as hell.
― his hands are a dirty fountain through which lives spurt (contenderizer), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:01 (twelve years ago) link
EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR DESTROYER
KILL YOUR WORTHLESS SELVES
AND NEVER LOOK ME IN THE EYE AGAIN
STUPID CUNTS NEED TO GET SOME TASTE
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:15 (twelve years ago) link
NO EXCUSES NO EXCEPTIONS
EVERYONE WHO WAS PREVIOUSLY AN ALLY OF MINE BUT WHO EXPRESSED APPRECIATION FOR THAT PIECE OF SHIT, I AM DISAPPOINTED IN YOU
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:16 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― the parable is the parable of the (Lamp), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:18 (twelve years ago) link
hi lex
― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:20 (twelve years ago) link
YOU LIKE DESTROYER
THEREFORE YOUR OPINIONS ARE NULL AND VOID
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:21 (twelve years ago) link
#1 album
― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:24 (twelve years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/1b6qp.png
― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:27 (twelve years ago) link
YOUR RED FINGER IS NULL AND VOID
FUCKING DESTROYER
YOU BORING BORING INDIE CUNTS
GET THAT SHIT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM BY NEXT YEAR
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:29 (twelve years ago) link
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN LIVE WITH YOURSELVES
I PITY YOU
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:30 (twelve years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/cLzjy.jpg
― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:31 (twelve years ago) link
http://knightnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/3-13-11jorts.jpg
― the parable is the parable of the (Lamp), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:32 (twelve years ago) link
Lex I want to apologize for not listening to LES til after my ballot was cast. If I had listened to it beforehand I wouldve voted it #1 and it would've placed higher than Destroyer.
― Drugs A. Money, Friday, 3 February 2012 04:32 (twelve years ago) link
THE MORAL VICTORY CONFIRMED
I CAN SLEEP NOW
― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:34 (twelve years ago) link
have a good night dude
― Drugs A. Money, Friday, 3 February 2012 04:34 (twelve years ago) link
yeah uh maybe this could be a general take it down a notch moment yall
― Thu'um gang (jjjusten), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:35 (twelve years ago) link
and, like this insubstantial pageant faded, leave not a track behind (xp)
― the parable is the parable of the (Lamp), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:36 (twelve years ago) link
― Thu'um gang (jjjusten), Thursday, February 2, 2012 11:35 PM (1 minute ago)
lex is just drunk and messin around man, no one's feelings are hurt or anything
― tebow gotti (k3vin k.), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:37 (twelve years ago) link
Lex, i will be your ally.fellow Canadian be damned - i think he sings stupidly.
― Porto for Pyros (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:38 (twelve years ago) link
this list hurt my feelings
very disappointed in u guyz
― DO NOT CALL (The Brainwasher), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:39 (twelve years ago) link
oh loool i meant that jorts img for the kevin smith thread
― the parable is the parable of the (Lamp), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:41 (twelve years ago) link
thx for the hint k3v i get so confused sometimes
― Thu'um gang (jjjusten), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:41 (twelve years ago) link
LOLOLOLOL Lamp!
― Drugs A. Money, Friday, 3 February 2012 04:42 (twelve years ago) link
I am very happy I decided to check this thread tonight!
― I spend a lot of time thinking about apricots (DJP), Friday, 3 February 2012 04:43 (twelve years ago) link
lmao ally
― max, Friday, 3 February 2012 04:43 (twelve years ago) link
I was thinking along these lines as I browsed the thread earlier in the evening, wondering why so many records in the list didn't strike me, and I think one of the main things that prevents me from being taken in by something is the sense that it's aesthetically unsure of itself, or middling, or half-assed, or somehow meek in its presentation. I think this is actually *always* something that's bothered me about certain strains of indie, and although it feels somewhat fascistic to articulate, I think I gravitate to music that sounds sure of itself and confident in its aesthetic choices.
I would rather hear the single-minded and masterful articulation of an aesthetic that doesn't quite make sense to me than someone dabbling in a field I ostensibly like but in a sort of unsure, gently exploratory manner. That's something that immediately turned me off to Nicolas Jaar, and I find it interesting/funny that Lex so vehemently criticizes Destroyer for being "meek" upthread yet is a big fan of Nicolas Jaar, who to me so *clearly* comes off the same way in his music--tentative, noncommital, afraid to lean into it. Music like this tries my patience, and at my worst almost offends me in that it asks me to come along with it even though it doesn't know where it's going. "Wait, we're miles into these dark woods and you have no idea where the fuck we are and never did?!"
I almost said something like "I miss music being more balls-out virtuosic", but that's not quite right. I mean, I do think basic technical fluency (and I'm talking songwriting-wise as well as instrument-wise) is something that sooooo many hyped musicians today just totally lack; in fact, as much as I enjoyed the Destroyer record, one of the main things that makes all those Steely Dan and Roxy Music comparisons ring false is that those older bands could really freaking PLAY, but not in an ostentatiously virtuosic manner so much as with a fluency that was so effortless it was nearly invisible.
This spreads to electronic music, too, in a way that I need to focus harder to be able to articulate. But when I think of my favorite producers, there's a sense of self-assuredness to their tracks, a feeling of authority and a sense that they know what the hell they're doing with their hardware/software--in a way that allows them to trascend it, sort of. I don't want to hear someone tinkering, and the Jaar is too close to that for me to be able to feel it. Granted, I should give it more of an effort given how many people whose taste I admire that like it, but that sense of pensiveness put me off immediately.
― Clarke B., Friday, 3 February 2012 04:44 (twelve years ago) link
http://lauriesims.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/maracas.jpghttp://timeoutchicago.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/timeout_492x330/716.mu.Destroyer1.jpghttp://lauriesims.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/maracas.jpghttp://timeoutchicago.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/timeout_492x330/716.mu.Destroyer1.jpghttp://lauriesims.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/maracas.jpghttp://timeoutchicago.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/timeout_492x330/716.mu.Destroyer1.jpghttp://lauriesims.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/maracas.jpg
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2012 05:07 (twelve years ago) link
how long did you spend looking for a picture of bejar with maracas before you gave up and went w/ the tambourine photo
― ⚓ (gr8080), Friday, 3 February 2012 05:10 (twelve years ago) link
not long enough apparently!
http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-googleganger-2.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-googleganger-2.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-googleganger-2.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-googleganger-2.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-googleganger-2.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-googleganger-2.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-googleganger-2.jpg?w=640
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2012 05:13 (twelve years ago) link
daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer
also, I just listened to the Nguzunguzu remix of that Ayshay EP and O_O
just listened and YES!
― original bgm, Friday, 3 February 2012 05:14 (twelve years ago) link
but wait
http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-1.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-1.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-1.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-1.jpg?w=640http://danielbejar.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/daniel-bejar-destroyer-performing-with-maraca-and-beer-1.jpg?w=640
― omar little, Friday, 3 February 2012 05:14 (twelve years ago) link
That looks like a piece of fruit to me.
― _Rudipherous_, Friday, 3 February 2012 05:19 (twelve years ago) link
one of those is the impostor Dan Bejar
― Moodles, Friday, 3 February 2012 05:20 (twelve years ago) link
I was thinking along these lines as I browsed the thread earlier in the evening, wondering why so many records in the list didn't strike me, and I think one of the main things that prevents me from being taken in by something is the sense that it's aesthetically unsure of itself, or middling, or half-assed, or somehow meek in its presentation. I think this is actually *always* something that's bothered me about certain strains of indie...
― Clarke B., Thursday, February 2, 2012 8:44 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that's an interesting point, especially as relates to contemporary indie culture, which often seems organized around a fundamental thread of meekness & uncertainty. you're absolutely right that there's certain strain of indie that prizes qualities like prettiness, softness, nostalgic regret, wounded sensitivity, self-doubt, defensive irony, poignant failure and the holiness of human frailty. it's music for the painfully self-aware. i'll go a little further, to suggest that this is not a trivial thing, merely one thread among many. imo, it's one of the core qualities that defines what we've come in the 21st century to call indie as a genre.
we can perhaps reduce it to "i was not made for these times", both the phrase and the song: an insistence that the world is too much, too harsh, that the only possible response is to turn away and inward. this sensibility unifies much of the music that contemporary indie congeals around: the beach boys, simon & garfunkel, nick drake, arthur russell, the pastels, sebadoh, belle & sebastian, cat power, godspeed you! black emperor, etc.
like, to appreciate it properly, you have to be willing to accept confusion, questioning and passive uncertainty as virtues of a sort - or at least as the foundations of a valid aesthetic. given that american indie is arguably a culture of white privilege, this sentimentalizing of powerless passivity raises some interesting questions, but that's probably grist for another thread...
― his hands are a dirty fountain through which lives spurt (contenderizer), Friday, 3 February 2012 05:43 (twelve years ago) link
I believe those to be pretty big generalizations and I don't know what value there is in dwelling on them.
― timellison, Friday, 3 February 2012 05:54 (twelve years ago) link
oh yeah, generalizing like crazy. but i've been indie since forever, and these are the things i think abt.
― his hands are a dirty fountain through which lives spurt (contenderizer), Friday, 3 February 2012 06:01 (twelve years ago) link
add the smifs and built to spill to the list above. and neil young. and the more sensitive sides of bowie and the VU. and
― his hands are a dirty fountain through which lives spurt (contenderizer), Friday, 3 February 2012 06:04 (twelve years ago) link
― his hands are a dirty fountain through which lives spurt (contenderizer), Friday, February 3, 2012 12:43 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I really like the way you articulated this. I mean, I can be painfully self-aware, and I sometimes feel "I wasn't made for these times", and I don't even feel it's necessarily bad to engage with those sorts of feelings in artistic endeavors. But sometimes I can't help but feeling as if certain strains of indie (and, to tie in another realm, contemporary fiction for sure) straight-up fetishize things like "the holiness (good word for how this comes across) of human frailty" and "wounded sensitivity"--and that's where I get lost. The "ears through which I'm listening" (as Tim put it) want to transcend this "all-too-human"-ness, to immerse myself in something greater, or for God's sake at least something more abstract and ineffable than my species' sad little problems. Music can do *so* much more than that, but I feel like so much of the indie you describe is content to just stop there and wallow. I mean, there's a video of a guy on YouTube playing "The Trooper" by Iron Maiden (amazingly fluently) on a harp. Is anybody really ever going to be inspired to do that with a tUnE-yArDs song or a Girls song or even a Destroyer song?
― Clarke B., Friday, 3 February 2012 06:05 (twelve years ago) link
Funny, I'm just listening to The Age of Adz for the first time right now and however someone might fit that into some kind of paradigm of indie personality, it is in no way "aesthetically unsure of itself, or middling, or half-assed." Imo, that's also true in a big way of Have One on Me, which is the indie record I've liked most from the last couple of years.
― timellison, Friday, 3 February 2012 06:07 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not happy with how general my statements are; they feel right to me and they ring true, but I need to dig more and substantiate them better. I'm just curious to see if others at least feel the way I do on a broad level...
― Clarke B., Friday, 3 February 2012 06:09 (twelve years ago) link