― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:41 (twenty-one years ago) link
Because it's not easily comprehensible?
― ArfArf, Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
(Xgau to VV intern: "excuse me, can you get me a cup of coffee -- er, and while you're downstairs, can you pick up some random science?")
― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
Thanks o. nate, your explanation makes more sense.
I'm not knocking him Amateurist by the way--just so you know--I'm actually a fan. My point, never expressed, is that I'll take the un-aprseable, confusing Christgau over the excessively lingo-ized one (whether of the academy or of the "street") anyday.
― dan fitz, Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Paula G., Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
I wouldn't mind describing *myself* that way
Welll...la-de-da, I keep forgetting that being "good, caring New Deal Democrats, good Boy Scouts, and far more telling, good boys" (Meltzer's "condescending" words to two writers who certainly deserve nothing but good, caring New Deal Democrat careful words, right?) means not having a sense of humor.
"Like most culture wags laureate, what they are...is pious outsiders..." as R.M. says...how about you two laying off being so pious yourselves, what personal connection do you guys have to the two writers anyway? I mean, he writes that way because he is a B.S. and N.D.D. in the worst possible senses of those terms--we're not talking three-day hikes or helping little old ladies across the street, or the WPA, here, we're talking about a pompous old man who thinks that rationalizing and explaining Rock and Roll is gonna keep him young--that's Meltzer's point and I happen to agree with it.
― Edd Hurt (delta ed), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:55 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
Was does this have to do with the New Deal, or the Democrats?
― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
Um, they're *metaphors*...for a "public-service" critical mindset, as opposed to, by implication, a truly fuck-shit-up rock and roll mindset. Maybe a bogus argument, but pretending not to recognize a metaphor when you see it doesn't help you prove it to be bogus.
― Paula G., Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
I wasn't playing naive, my grandparents were actual New Deal Democrats so I thought perhaps Meltzer was speaking literally, at least in part.
― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Paula G., Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
Tom, when you're talking about the media venues that Christgau and Marcus write for, then P.C. and establishment become more or less identical.
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
Probably, Edd, something close to the relationship you have to Meltzer--as readers, as fans, as critics of...whatever. What kind of relationship do you propose readers have to writers?
― dan fitz, Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
I still think "they ain't rock and roll" is kind of a bogus argument. But he's not saying "they're P.C." P.C. is one of those overused terms like pretentious and ironic that shouldn't be used unless definitely appropriate.
― Paula G., Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dan fitz, Thursday, 6 February 2003 17:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 February 2003 18:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
wait, so WHY do people think the "is" should be "are" again?? sorry, but "back-in-the-day" is a SINGULAR noun. makes perfect sense to me. and anybody who thinks "even has some pronunciation in it" should be "he even enunciates" is clearly a useless literalist born without a fucking sense of humor, and should stick to *entertainment weekly*.
also. re meltzer. at least christgau and marcus don't think that music died in 1970 (when meltzer got too lazy for it), you know?
― olga, Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:14 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Why am I getting involved in this lunacy? (Groke), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:22 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Paula G., Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jus' lurkin', Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:35 (twenty-one years ago) link
well, yeah, i can see now how the singular form of "to be" is wrong. thanks, mr. perry. but i still don't understand why people have trouble understand what the sentence MEANS. i mean, do people really think christgau is less comprehensible, than, say, most people reviewing records on the web? or posting on ILM, for that matter? i mean, isn't the fact that he doesn't write exactly like everybody else out there, and maybe that it takes a little work on the part of the reader to get his point sometimes, a GOOD thing? it seems like people complaining about him just wanna be SPOONFED, or something...i mean, he's a WRITER. so you have to learn his LANGUAGE, you know? how does that make him any different than, say, Meltzer in The Aesthetics of Rock??? Or Sterling Clover? Or Mark Sinker? Or [fill in the blank]?
― olga, Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
oops, I meant "understanding", not that second "understand". (and i meant "you fucking nitpickers," not "people". okay, maybe i didn't.)
― olga, Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:39 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
What does this mean?
― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:46 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
they signed to atlantic, made a more metal record, don't say anything deep, and don't belt out the lyrics, but he likes it more than if they were belting shallow lyrics or whispering deep ones. like, duh.
― olga, Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
Bjork, VespertineI liked this a lot better once I heard how it was entirely about sex, which since it often buries its pulse took a while. Sex, not fucking. I'm nervous so you'd better pet me awhile sex. Lick the backs of my knees sex. OK, where my buttcheeks join my thighs sex. I'm still a little jumpy so you'd better pet me some more sex. How many different ways can we open our mouths together sex. We came 20 minutes ago and have Sunday morning ahead of us sex. Or, if fucking, tantric--the one where you don't move and let vaginal peristalsis do the work (yeah sure). The atmospherics, glitch techno, harps, glockenspiels, and shades of Hilmar Om Hilmarsson float free sometimes, and when she gets all soprano on your ass you could accuse her of spirituality. But with somebody this freaky you could get used to that. English lyrics provided, most of them dirty if you want. A-
― die9o (dhadis), Thursday, 6 February 2003 20:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― olga, Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
By objectifying her?
The "yeah sure" is kind of funny, though.
― die9o (dhadis), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
Oranges and Lemons [Geffen, 1989]Compulsive formalists can't fabricate meaning--by which I mean nothing deeper than extrinsic interest--without a frame (cf. Skylarking, even the Dukes of Stratosfear). The only concept discernible on this hour-long double-LP is CD. Def Leppard got there first. B-
How is CD a concept? And how did Def Leppard get there first? And where is there?
― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
"Their earlier albums had some concept, and this doesn't, unless you count the fact that it's an hour long, something they're only doing because, thanks to CD, they can get away with. Unfortunately, Def Leppard beat them to that trick."
― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
in 1989 it sure could be -- extreme length; overemphasis on improved sound quality possibilities (a la early '60s "hi-fi" albums); etc.
>And how did Def Leppard get there first?<
Hysteria came out in what, 1987? 1988?
>And where is there?<
there.
― olga, Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:16 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
ps - also thanks olga
― dleone (dleone), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
― picknit, Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 6 February 2003 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 06:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 07:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 08:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 16:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 16:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 17:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 17:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 17:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 17:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 17:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Billy Joel Rosen (ystrickler), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 17:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Billie Joe Armstrong (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 17:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 21:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 21:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 21:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 18 March 2003 21:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― patita (patita), Wednesday, 8 June 2005 15:19 (eighteen years ago) link
this one's better
― Stormy Davis, Friday, 13 July 2007 17:50 (sixteen years ago) link