Seinfeld: Classic or Dud

Elaine had the best hair ever in the later series.

Anyway, I want to hate this show, it's the type of cultural phenomenon that normally annoys me, but every time I stumble across a rerun I end up watching it and having some good laffs. Last night I saw the one where Elaine dates a mover but breaks up with him because of his stance on abortion. And George invites himself over to a family's house to watch their rented copy of Breakfast at Tiffany's because he didn't read the book for his study group. It was funny. I'll say classic.

BBC2 didin't treat these shows like the comedy gold they were (sticking them late evening etc WTF?!) whereas crap like friends and will and grace get prime time on C4 (OK the former was funny for the first two series).

crosspost: daddino doesn't rock anymore.

I HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN TO ROCK YET!

I'm afraid of you.

George Constanza is a brilliant character. A recognizable, even sympathetic monster.

Witness this and this. As well as this, once in a while.

Also, I'm fairly sure I would love Larry Sanders, but I've never seen it because of the stupid fucking BBC.

But I do think it's a great show, and sometimes ridiculously funny. And I think the "nihilism" (but it's not that - it's a sympathetic portrait of failed humanity) is what makes it great. Curb Your Enthusiasm does this too, but too much so - we need some real humor and niceness along with the nasty stuff. Also, the particularly New York voice of the show. Complaining about the hackneyed plot lines is like complaining that Buffy has to kill a vampire every week (well, ok, maybe there's something to that).

It's not my personal favorite tv show - I like sentimental, yuppie-sensibility stuff like Mad About You and Northern Exposure, which I won't make greatness claims for. And It's not the greatest tv show ever - whatever that is, it's probably not a sitcom - but I think a good argument can be made for best sitcom of the last 25 years

I totally disagree with this. I've come to HATE the basic attitude of Seinfeld - I watch it every night, it's the only thing on TV in New Zealand - and Jerry's whole, 'My parents love me, aren't I adorable, you all love me, and I'm just gonna be a fucking bastard because I can' thing is really wearying after a while. Seinfeld doesn't even break a sweat. He's always as cool as a cucumber, looking at everyone else - looking at girls - and the sneer is never too far away. Larry David seems much humbler - he can hardly bear to look anyone else in the face, let alone laugh AT them. This makes 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' seem much, much nicer to me.

Seinfeld has ruined me for all other sitcoms: I can't watch any of them without getting bored. I think it's actually gotten better in syndication: the episodes I thought were lame first time around seem funnier to me now. There's also a tragic, hopeless undercurrent to the humor that's perfectly disguised by its breeziness, tho it's probably fatal to take Seinfeld too seriously.

Also, after watching it 53,000,000 times I think I've started to fancy Elaine a bit.

I didnt think they were meant to be funny when I did a little re-watch of it, just amusing bits that were providing commentary on what happened.

I wasn't really laughing that much but then by the end you are laughed out.

xp like, 'take my wife - please!' was probably funny the first time people heard it, it's not Henny Youngman's fault it became a cliche

I remember liking Seinfeld (the show) quite a lot when it was on 25 years ago, but ever since whenever I catch a bit of it I can't see at all what I liked about it.

However, this one scene will always fondly stay with me: Jerry has to do a show for kids, chats a bit with George before he's on, then walks in the room and you just see George listening in on his opening: "Hi kids! So what's the deal with homework? You're not working on your home!" after which he's booed by all the kids. George smiles, shakes his head and walks off.

isn't Seinfeld kind of a victim of his own success to some extent, that kind of "what's the deal with [banal thing]" style has become a shorthand for tired, hack comedy, but it was genuinely distinctive and original when he started doing it, and it feels overfamiliar because he was so successful and frequently imitated.

I was just trying to unpick the whole 'how much of a hack is Jerry?' thing in my head*, and was pleased to find someone's done the research on 'what's the deal with...' in Seinfeld

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/59044/whats-deal-whats-deal-did-seinfeld-actually-say-it

* I'm on something like 'it depends on the needs of the episode/joke but our baseline is that he's definitely successful and probably good; however, as time goes on we suspect this whole stand-up thing is sociopathic'

The clip with Seinfeld and Shandling discussing Robin Williams is great - they're both batting this joke back and forth about how you "never hear of 63 being young unless somebody dies". When Shandling does the gag, it's soulful, existential, disturbing. Then Seinfeld repeats the gag back to him, except more condensed, pithier, with more precise timing - and it's funnier but it's suddenly become just "a bit".

Which feeds back into the craft discussion.

that "what's the deal" article is missing this SNL sketch from 1985:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90-jXbyv7ok

Omfggggg

lmao the way they immediately stop fighting when someone brings up Gilligan's Island

they kinda did this same sketch a few years later as a game show. glad it's on YouTube now because I've been looking for it forever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsJYmf_G5d0

Lots of otm comments on here lately.
Cracks about his act become a running gag---he's selling out in reverse (or becoming The Great Hack)(or both of those, because he knows letting on that he is or "is" a hack is now good for business, on this hip show). At least once, it even leads to a confrontation (if you can't see it: the hawt Suthun Belle tells Jerreh she's seen his act).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3kTYCLSgsg

Tracy Kolis! She also plays Kelly (quite a different character---or is she) in "The Soup," Bania's debut:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soup_(Seinfeld)

More fuel for Jerrynalysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL2sr99Sv18

Just catching up on the fantastic discussion that has gone down in this thread over the past several days. Question about that 1985 backstage SNL sketch, though: are they specifically making fun of Seinfeld, or was this specific style that much of a cliché of stand-up comedians at the time? It’s so on the nose that it’s hard to imagine it’s not the former, but how much of their audience would actually have gotten the reference? I WANNA KNOW!

was wondering the same. I thought Seinfeld himself was relatively unknown until the show.

My best guess is that it’s one of those things, like half of the bits in Zucker Brothers movies, that is a pretty straight parody of a specific thing (in this case Seinfeld), but it’s funny enough that lots of people enjoy it as something random and inspired, with no idea that it’s referencing something at all, let alone what that thing is

jerry was definitely known in 1985! everybody did stand-up like that by then. he was on the Tonight Show way before 1985. he started in the 70s. i certainly remember him from television back then and i am not a professional comedian. he was on Letterman a lot. like Leno.

that whole "did you ever notice..." thing started in the 70s. george carlin would start jokes like that. david brenner was a big influence on the 80s people.

Otm, yeah i think its one of those things where that style was the dominant mode and also Jerry was also one of its most visible proponents, so it would have worked as parody either way.

Has his 1987 HBO special ever come up itt? I think its up on youtube, a typical-for-its-time mix up standup and truly terrible sketches, some of Jerry's familiar material adapted into scripted sketch form with him dressed up as a little kid, a dog, a 1950s dad, etc, really excruciating stuff. A really interesting document of Jerry kinda going along with the accepted showbiz playbook of the day, going past the limits of what hes good at and eating shit. Its easy to imagine him taking off the dog costume and being like "if i'm gonna do a tv show it needs to be nothing like this"