ILM'S TOP 77 TRACKS of 2011 (Los resultados!)

OK, I compared the ILM top 20 of 2006 with the ILM top 20 of 2011, looking at which songs also placed in the Pazz and Jop or Pitchfork top 40.

Rank / Song / (P&J, P4K)

2006
1. Gnarls Barkley, "Crazy" (1, -)
2. T.I., "What You Know" (2, 3)
3. Justin Timberlake, "My Love" (4, 1)
4. Hot Chip, "Over and Over" (17, 16)
5. Peter Bjorn and John, "Young Folks" (25, 5)
6. Nelly Furtado, "Promiscuous" (6, -)
7. Junior Boys, "In the Morning" (-, 13)
8. Lily Allen, "LDN" (40, 21)
9. The Knife, "Silent Shout" (-, 2)
10. Lupe Fiasco, "Kick, Push" (9, 15)
11. Justin Timberlake, "SexyBack" (7, -)
12. Cat Power, "The Greatest" (-, 27)
13. Cassie, "Me & U" (-, 22)
14. TV on the Radio, "Wolf Like Me" (13, 4)
15. Beyonce, "Irreplaceable" (17, -)
16. Ghostface Killah, "Shakey Dog" (-, 19)
17. Hot Chip, "Boy from School" (-, 7)
18. Liars, "Other Side of Mt. Heart Attack" (-, -)
19. Chamillionaire, "Ridin'" (27, -)
20. The Hold Steady, "Stuck Between Stations" (-, 11)

2011
1. Azealia Banks ft. Lazy Jay - 212 (6, 9)
2. Lana Del Rey - Video Games (7, 19)
3. Nicki Minaj - Super Bass (3, 4)
4. Beyoncé - Countdown (2, 7)
5. Todd Terje - Snooze 4 Love (-, -)
6. Miguel - Sure Thing (-, -)
7. Britney Spears - Till The World Ends (7, -)
8. Desloc Piccalo ft. Adiah - Drumz (-, -)
9. M83 - Midnight City (4, 1)
10. Kreayshawn - Gucci Gucci (24, -)
11. Blawan - Getting Me Down (-, -)
12. Cass McCombs - County Line (22, 8)
13. JoJo - Marvin's Room (Can't Do Better) (-, -)
14. Kelly Rowland ft. Lil Wayne - Motivation (-, -)
15. Emeli Sandé - Heaven (-, -)
16. Benoit & Sergio - What I've Lost (-, -)
17. Frank Ocean - Novacane (16, -)
18. EMA - California (15, 3)
19. Destroyer - The Laziest River (-, -)
20. Tyler, The Creator - Yonkers (10, 16)

I would say 'uses the machinery of pop rather than disdaining it' is probably the closest you get: the poptimist influence is pretty firmly ingrained here, and that wording allows for stuff that is not at all pop in any traditional sense. The rest of the descriptors - I don't know how you get there unless you spend all your time in certain closed sections of the board.

otm look how many tracks on that list have little to no relevance outside it?

Tracks that appear on the P4K list have plenty of relevance outside of Pitchfork precisely because Pitchfork is popular and influential.

Didn't bobbins split in two? bobbins and partisans? actually are the partisans bobbins-splitters or a separate entity - steffi is definitely bobbins, not sure some of those others were particularly tho

FYI "getting me down" and "motivation" are just outside your arbitrary top 40 cut-off point in p&j; "sure thing" and "snooze 4 love" are in the top 100. i think at this point we're just moving the stat goalposts to prove our point - let's get into specifics, what point are you making about those particular songs?

I can't really see whats apparently so strikingly different about the 2006 list to the 2011 one

Whatever poptimist influence once permeated ILM has been subdued over time, I think. Either that, or its become so all-encompassing that no one recognizes it anymore. I don't, at least. I think the indie-minded and pop-minded and even the outsider-minded people around here have learned to converge in ways they never will in other communities like this. That's why I love ILM so much.

Top 40 isn't arbitrary -- I can't find P&J results for 2006 beyond the top 40 posted on Xgau's site.

Tracks that appear on the P4K list have plenty of relevance outside of Pitchfork precisely because Pitchfork is popular and influential.

...among certain people. ilm has thankfully always been somewhat sceptical of that

The rest of the descriptors - I don't know how you get there unless you spend all your time in certain closed sections of the board.

Well, I'm certainly not claiming to have bottled the secret essence of ILM. No doubt there is a lot those descriptors don't capture. I'm not sure how to shoehorn the large metal contingent into that (maybe I can sneak them in under "theatrical"). Anyway, I'm not sure what you guys are arguing: are you saying that there is an ILM sensibility and you feel excluded from it, or there isn't one but this list implies that there is?

Tracks that appear on the P4K list have plenty of relevance outside of Pitchfork precisely because Pitchfork is popular and influential.

How popular & influential is it really? xps

i know there was very little steffi talk cuz i mentioned her in passing when her album dropped and remember no one really responding, lol. "yours" was just a legit huge house track.

― first period don't give a fuck, second period gon get cut (lex pretend), Friday, January 27, 2012 11:36 AM (9 minutes ago)

i had the same reaction, but, speaking totally for myself here (though i'd imagine others are the same) i come to ILM to find out about less obvious stuff, and would rather dedicate my ILM posting to it? thats not 100% true, but i dunno, going "hey dudes, this steffi track is huge!" is boring i guess.

fyi the "summer jams" thread is always a good spot where a wide variety of stuff gets blown up:

☄ ☼☁☼☁☼☁☼ ☮ SUMMER JAMS 2011 ☮ ☀⚡☀⚡☀⚡☀ ☄

p sure thats where Matt DC first posted "disco en paradiso"

there's really no reason why p4k should be our benchmark any more than resident advisor. i've always assumed the comparison was put there to lol at p4k because i always remember a looooot of "P4k: DNP" every year

The p4k thing just gets carried over each year because we did it last year. No real pertinence to our own list other than, yeah, 'looooot of "P4k: DNP"'.

and surely more ILMers write for Pitchfork than any other single site?

^^ this is my perception as well, which is why the "ugh Pitchfork" line of thought these days really just strikes me as alternately comical and mean

Whatever poptimist influence once permeated ILM has been subdued over time, I think. Either that, or its become so all-encompassing that no one recognizes it anymore.

Maybe more the latter, less a shrill lobby, more just kind of ingrained

let's get into specifics, what point are you making about those particular songs?

In 2006, I'm pretty sure I'd heard all of the songs in the top 20 except for the Liars track.

In 2011, there were three tracks (Blawan, Emile Sande, Benoit & Sergio) I'd never even heard of, and another (Desloc Piccalo) I would never have heard of had there not been a dedicated thread on ILM. Of all of the bolded tracks, the only one that I'd listened to more than twice was Destroyer.

I dunno, it feels somewhat significant to me.

...among certain people. ilm has thankfully always been somewhat sceptical of that

Among lots of people! Surely P4K has a much larger readership than either ILM or Resident Advisor!

The Pitchfork review section is far better than it's ever been imo, but things that distract people from this fact are the almost tabloid-level lows the news dept has sunk to, the self-aggrandizing festival every year, the almost smug sense that "Best New Music" tags carry with them, etc etc.

"getting me down" was #20 on the fact EOY list and #1 on resident advisor.

emeli sandé was a huge huge hit in the uk.

those are not evidence of ilx disappearing into its own wormhole and departing from consensus elsewhere.

I'd be up for adding RA or something similar to the stats, but I definitely think we shouldn't remove P4k - it is actually, factually, a pretty big deal in music criticism. But then you get the thing of making more work for the people who run it. I thought Spotify popularity was a really cool addition this year, if somewhat flawed.

Among lots of people! Surely P4K has a much larger readership than either ILM or Resident Advisor!

My point isn't who has a larger readership - it's about the music that is covered. Which list is more outward looking, more catholic in its tastes, more willing to take seriously music of all kinds.

In 2006, I'm pretty sure I'd heard all of the songs in the top 20 except for the Liars track.

In 2011, there were three tracks (Blawan, Emile Sande, Benoit & Sergio) I'd never even heard of, and another (Desloc Piccalo) I would never have heard of had there not been a dedicated thread on ILM. Of all of the bolded tracks, the only one that I'd listened to more than twice was Destroyer.

I dunno, it feels somewhat significant to me.

― jaymc, Friday, January 27, 2012

I knew the same amount of records in both years. Feels significant to me

Well, doesn't ILM have a "brand" as much as P4K has a "brand"? I mean, the ILM brand is pretty much "look out, we like some of everything" ...but it's not really that much different as brands go.

In 2008 I went to the cinema 15 times. Last year I only went once. I think that says something about Hollywood

Maybe Spotify made a difference this year, by making it easier for more people to hear more of the nominated tracks before voting? Maybe there was more campaigning?

I don't think the campaigning was any more fierce, a couple tracks excepted. I'm absolutely sure that Spotify helped more people hear more things, though.

still in the Spotify exclusion zone :(

Maybe the difference is that ILM has become more RA-influenced then?

Songs from the 2006 RA top 30 appearing on the 2006 ILM top 50:

16. The Knife, "Silent Shout"
27. The Field, "Over the Ice"

Songs from the 2011 RA top 50 appearing on the 2011 ILM top 77:

1. Blawan, "Getting Me Down"
4. Todd Terje, "Snooze 4 Love"
6. Steffi ft. Virginia, "Yours"
12. Benoit and Sergio, "Walk and Talk"
41. M83, "Midnight City"

My point isn't who has a larger readership - it's about the music that is covered. Which list is more outward looking, more catholic in its tastes, more willing to take seriously music of all kinds.

ILM > P4k > RA

In 2008 I went to the cinema 15 times. Last year I only went once. I think that says something about Hollywood

This is a flawed analogy. I think my listening habits, including how and where I discover music, are pretty similar to what they were five years ago.

yea the campaigning thread seemed kinda more muted this yr idk prob cuz we we're in the 'box

2006: 4%
2011: 6%

Maybe Spotify made a difference this year, by making it easier for more people to hear more of the nominated tracks before voting? Maybe there was more campaigning?

This is entirely possible. I didn't bother listening to any nominated tracks that I wasn't already aware of.

I think my listening habits, including how and where I discover music, are pretty similar to what they were five years ago.

― jaymc, Friday, January 27, 2012

Pool of one though. Plus dependent on your own self-assessment,

I'm not sure what you're arguing...?

I'm not sure what you're arguing...?

You're extrapolating based on a sample size of one, and then arguing thats somehow significant.

Not saying you're wrong or anything but to me the 2006 and 2011 lists look pretty similar. maybe depends on your vantage point

You said yourself that perhaps you don't spend as much time/dig as deep to hear new music nowadays jaymc (forget your exact wording)

2011 was heavier on dance tracks... maybe it was a great year for dance, maybe it was just a quirk of who voted this year

i think the middle of these lists always feel pretty attuned to what has been championed on ilm but maybe not in other places, but once the top 10 or 15 rolls around, it usually falls back in line w/ maybe one or two exceptions

and there is some truth to lex's protests about comparing this list to pitchfork's... last year we had "hard in da paint" and "wut" as the top 2 tracks, which was out of line w/ the top finishers at pitchfork and pazz and jop, but not, say, fact or some rap publications

All I am saying is this:

I am someone who keeps up with music (in a dilettantish way) well enough to know most of the tracks in the top 20 of P&J and P4k each year.

In 2006 this meant that I also knew pretty much all of the tracks in the top 20 of the ILM poll. However, in 2011 I can no longer say this is true.

Since I have used objective data to determine that the ILM poll no longer resembles P&J and P4k as closely as it once did, I think it's fair to make the case that ILM has changed.

lol u old

It's certainly plausible that the Sandbox had a weird effect on the poll, but I'm not sure what that effect would be. I *was* nervous that we might not get as many voters as a result, but in the end we got more than last year.

jaymc is exactly right, and i cant even understand what it is about what he's saying that lex is so incredibly resistant to

Game's the same, just got more fierce

we're saying that over time, ILM has become less similar to a sort of larger critical consensus and has found its own particular enthusiasms & quirks of taste. I think that's fairly correct.

or i should say, that's a theory based upon the evidence jaymc has brought to the table here

Lol gr8080

No objection here to adding placings from RA for next year. I had thought about adding stats for a bunch of EOY lists for the big spreadsheet, but the first list I looked at was The Wire and I realised more than half of those albums hadn't been nominated and decided maybe it wasn't worth my time.

or i should say, that's a theory based upon the evidence jaymc has brought to the table here

― guilt is a useless emoticon (D-40), Friday, January 27, 2012 5:42 PM (50 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it might be true... it's also hard to assert as fact based on two years of data