Nicki Minaj - Pink Friday

i really think that regardless of nicki's intentions it's far more interesting to talk about how the song works (or not) as though it's not about lil kim, because ~catfights~ between female rappers are not their sole point of interest

I dunno Lex, I take the point above. But agree with dayo, it's still a real aspect to how the track has been talked about and received, so I don't think it shouldn't ignored either. I also don't understand why it has to be an argument?

male rappers can diss unnamed rivals in their songs without people going "is it about X or Y?"

i really don't agree w/ this at all, and it's one thing about rap blogs that really pisses me off -- ppl have been picking thru wayne and drake and kanye and jay lines trying to make up beefs b/w them for years and years now

and even on a micro level, ppl will pick thru lines by smaller rappers from the same city wondering if they're going at each other

which isn't to say that there isn't some truth to what you're saying, lex, but you're way overstating your case

While it's pathetic that (male) listeners still define female performers on male terms, guys have dissed each other practically since the genre was created (KRS-1, LL Cool J, 50 Cent, etc).

I would agree with all of this if the song weren't called 'stupid hoe' and the chorus wasn't 'you a stupid hoe'

tbh I didn't think much about the title and to whom it's directed.

I didn't really think about (or care) at who the song is directed, but I'm not gonna act like nicki had no part in framing the debate around this song

There's definitely a difference between people reading into to subliminals and vague, general/generic disses that male rappers fit into every song, and people constructing rivalries between every female rapper and pitting all female rappers against eachother (which they do ALL OF THE TIME WITHOUT FAIL). though, in this case, the song is clearly about Lil Kim and Kim & Nicki have been vocal about their "beef" (though obv this beef started because Kim is insecure about her place in rap given Nicki's ascendancy and the fact there can't be more than one active female rapper for some reason)

I agree w/ lex's argument in general and would agree w/ no qualifications if the debate around 'super bass' or even, to use a stronger example, massive attack had been shoehorned into this narrative but please don't act like nicki wasn't complicit in setting the goalposts for 'stupid hoe'

I don't put much cop into the mercenary nature of these "beefs."

Of course, they are much more "promotional" than "mercenary" in nature.

also, the chorus is uncomfortable to listen to - like really uncomfortable. I like almost everything else about the song, but I don't think I'll be listening to it much

the only part i don't like is "I AM THE FEMALE WEEZY" :(

― teledyldonix, Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:12 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

this part bothers me too cuz the way I read it, she's comparing herself to a male standard of rap - like she would never be able to declare herself the best rapper alive, but only the best rapper alive* with a footnote

does anybody have a more generous reading of this line?

*female

nothing more generous, but it comes from here. seems thoroughly unnecessary tacked onto the end of "stupid hoe" like that. worth noting that the opening couplet of birdman's verse is fucking amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHgOvf7710k

man, i really love nicki minaj

that's how i read that line too & exactly what i don't like about it, xp

it's almost as obvious that dayo is otm here as it is that lex is, that is why the culture is so :(

lex isn't RONG so much as thick for realizing why this is the worst possible song to make that particular point about. also smh at multiple people 'bringing up' the comparison to "Itty Bitty Piggy" as if that's not what i was talking about upthread ("one of the songs to really predict that trend was soulja boy's 'donk,' which nicki used for one of her biggest early mixtape tracks).

the SEXISM in that song is so thick it repulses me and there's a positively 4th street thing about it coming from a supposed "strong"/"independant" woman that makes it even worse.

video is plain sexploitation and the whole idea of women claiming the "stupid hoe" predicate seems wrong to me since it's adapting a repressive chauvinist lingo or whatever. maybe that's not how you experience it in america because blacks also for reasons i don't understand use racist slurs and that seems accepted but to me this whole thing is really weird.

figure it's a shame since nicki is a very talented mc.

people don't really like when you call black people "blacks" btw

sry

i feel stupid now :(

"syo sb, what the fucks good?
we ship platinum, them bitches are shipping wood"

"you sold platinum round the world, i sold wood in the hood"

video's great, track too, with dayo on the discomfort level

love the grace jones quotes

I wonder if the Stupid Hoe vid is slightly mocking the Lil' Kim pornbot schtick actually, or if that's purely just Nicki doing her own hyper-commodified pornbot Barbie thing. some of the creepier, exaggerated bits do kind of look like Lil' Kim parody

with lex on the awfulness of "i'm angelina, you jennifer". problem for me is that angelie vs. jennifer is some stupid fucking bullshit, and the less i hear about it, the better.

what shipz said about "boner-shriveling" is actually pretty pertinent to what nicki does, because she both plays up to a conventional hypersexualised schtick (see the "dance (a$$)" video) but also disrupts it with freakish body exaggerations. it's not exactly Taking A Stand but it's certainly fucking around with people's expectations (and boners). the slow loris face in the "stupid hoe" video exemplifies this. calling it "plain sexploitation" means you weren't watching it closely enough.

and then when she's on her knees in the cage the first thing i thought was that she was taking the piss but at the same time she's still on her knees in a cage so i guess she's trying to have her cake and eat it.

it's remarkable how many people appear to have never heard female rappers use the words "bitch" and "ho".

my favourite bit of the song is "these hoes is so busted, hoes is so crusty, these bitches is my sons and I DON'T WANT CUSTODY"

I can't quite tell where Nicki is coming from with the hypersexual/Barbie thing. like she's totally be embracing consumerism/commodification while also, it seems, knowingly portraying it all as scary/unreal/absurd

totally be embracing

it's remarkable how many people appear to have never heard female rappers use the words "bitch" and "ho".

question of degree, imo. chorus of endlessly repeated stupid hoes starts to feel like something tyler would do.

I wonder if the Stupid Hoe vid is slightly mocking the Lil' Kim pornbot schtick actually, or if that's purely just Nicki doing her own hyper-commodified pornbot Barbie thing.

the narcissism of no differences

@ lex i see now that "plain sexploitation" was a bad choice of words. i get that there's some kind of surreal aspect but i do not think it makes it subversive at all which maybe is also your point wrt cage scene.

i don't think there has been a female rapper with sales and explicit lyrics like this before but do school me if i'm wrong.

like she's totally be embracing consumerism/commodification while also, it seems, knowingly portraying it all as scary/unreal/absurd

this seems v otm

i don't really follow sales but is nicki really that much bigger than kim was in terms of profile? also you know missy was hella explicit at times, it's just that no one pigeonholed her as a "sexual" rapper b/c she didn't fit the image.

the funny thing is, in terms of how she approaches sex on record, nicki is far far more in line with missy than kim/trina, and since going "pop" has toned down a lot of that stuff.

It's hard for me to think of Minaj as a sexual rapper either tbh.

ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS ASS

the funny thing is, in terms of how she approaches sex on record, nicki is far far more in line with missy than kim/trina, and since going "pop" has toned down a lot of that stuff.

I hadn't thought about it before but this is true, she doesn't really seem to do tunes along the lines of "Hustlin" or "How Many Licks" or etc.

also you know missy was hella explicit at times, it's just that no one pigeonholed her as a "sexual" rapper b/c she didn't fit the image.

I was going to point you at the 34 million Google hits for "missy elliott sex" but all of them seem to be about her history as a survivor of sexual abuse.

Even though I remember her getting just as much pigeonholing as everyone else, if your statement is true it's likely because unlike Lil Kim/Trina/Foxy Brown/practically every other female rapper who hit in the late 90s, not all of Missy's singles were about how nasty she was in bed.

like she's totally be embracing consumerism/commodification while also, it seems, knowingly portraying it all as scary/unreal/absurd

― Chris S, Monday, January 23, 2012 3:05 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this seems v otm

― tinie tempurah (lex pretend), Monday, January 23, 2012 4:05 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah, the use of sexuality, absurdity and distancing in the creation of a pop image reminds me somewhat of lady gaga, though minaj's persona is more limited by and to the "sex object" signifiers she plays with.

I can't quite tell where Nicki is coming from with the hypersexual/Barbie thing. like she's totally be embracing consumerism/commodification while also, it seems, knowingly portraying it all as scary/unreal/absurd

I think this is, like, EXACTLY how we're supposed to feel, and the reason I can't get excited about it.

nicki minaj is a million times funnier than lady gaga & about 2/3 as funny as missy

eh, different kinds of humor with different aims (re: minaj vs gaga)

this is getting pwnd on youtube in the like/dislike war

the bug-eyed baby minaj diva singing "stupid hoe" while standing on a giant chair is really the moment where i'm like oh fuck it i'm enjoying this

ha otm

it's ANIME EYES *fumes*

Sorry I'm playing catch up.

this is getting pwnd on youtube in the like/dislike war
― J0rdan S., Monday, January 23, 2012 7:49 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I can't understand why the r&b/hip hop community is not liking this. I guess being weird is not cool anymore. I guess you have to be all cool and "swag"??? Also, does it seem like r&b/hip hop doesn't like uptempo songs anymore. It seems like artists release an uptempo high concept song and it tanks and then releases a midtempo catchy, but boring song and it does well. Also does this song sound vaguely Balitmorish clubby to you guys? Maybe I'm reaching.

I think this is, like, EXACTLY how we're supposed to feel, and the reason I can't get excited about it.

― Clarke B., Monday, January 23, 2012 9:45 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I personally think she is the true descendant of Grace Jones which is why I'm enjoying this. Grace made people uncomfortable and Nicki is doing the same thing (but doing it with a sense of humor) for the r&b/hip hop community who tend to cry foul after a woman gets some longevity and tries something different.

nicki minaj is a million times funnier than lady gaga & about 2/3 as funny as missy

― flopson, Monday, January 23, 2012 9:46 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OTM!!!!!!

It's not even that fast. It's only 100 bpm, which is way slower than "Super Bass" but a lot faster than most rap that gets played on the radio in 2012. 90-100 used to be pretty normal tempo for rap songs.

It's not Outkast "B.O.B" fast but still fast (and random) enough for people to not like it. Also this song is marketed towards the hip hop community while "Super Bass" is a pop song. An uptempo pop song is expected while uptempo hip hop songs don't get that much love.