Irish Travellers

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Literacy levels are pretty low

Charles Kennedy Jumped Up, He Called 'Oh No'. (Tom D.), Friday, 20 January 2012 14:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also interesting is that despite the sexualization of very young girls (pagent-like clothes/makeup on toddlers and teens wearing insanely skimpy outfits) they supposedly maintain a really strict code of behavior including no sex before marriage. Maybe that's one of the reasons they wed so young? Women are also not allowed to drink though my facebook research last night seemed to indicate that that part might not be that strictly adhered to anymore.

ENBB, Friday, 20 January 2012 14:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah cant is still spoken alright

Irish for 'talk' is caint p. conch, maybe where it comes from-

(govtname)mac (darraghmac), Friday, 20 January 2012 14:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh, there is also "grabbing".

ENBB, Friday, 20 January 2012 14:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

But apparently grabbing might not really be really.

Lots of DV too. It's really pretty grim.

This article is fairly interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/feb/25/truth-about-gypsy-traveller-life-women

ENBB, Friday, 20 January 2012 14:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also, I was watching some clip from a documentary someone did (not the lolweddding show) and there was a girl who was working and still in school at 16 which is apparently v v rare. For her birthday she and a bunch of friends went paintballing and she had to fill out all the forms for everyone because she was the only one who could read and write well enough to do so.

Pretty sure this was Gypsy Weddings, I remember seeing it.

We had an Irish Traveller girl in our class at school, she was on the register but only actually ever turned up once or twice. I always figured it might be because she was travelling and miles away but I'm not sure.

Dust, Friday, 20 January 2012 14:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

We had a traveller lad at ours. I remember he liked to fight a lot.

Mark G, Friday, 20 January 2012 14:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

numeracy and literacy are very low, improving rapidly enough in young women, life expectancy, convictions, suicide, addiction all lamentable compared to general population, some of that's improving, employment is non-existent except for self-employment or traveller specific community schemes to improve literacy etc within themselves

Most travellers live in rented accommodation these days, or will have halting sites provided by local councils- the emphasis is on getting them accommodated to a good standard, but often of necessity that means in a settled manner, which is seen as an anti-traveller-lifestyle measure

etc

(govtname)mac (darraghmac), Friday, 20 January 2012 14:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

x-post - It might have been then. I spent one day watching loads of Youtube clips from various things so I can't remember what was what.

Yeah Darragh from what I understand the actual traveling part is changing a lot because of laws imposed to prevent people from setting up camp on vacant ground so while many still identify as Travellers culturally, they do a lot less actual traveling as whole family units than they did years ago.

ENBB, Friday, 20 January 2012 15:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

There was a woman who won a beauty contest in Europe some years ago, whose dad or family leader told her not to take the scholarship and endorsements, so after winning the whole thing, she turned it down to go back to her family. That's all I can remember....

It means why you gotta be a montague? (Laurel), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

why do they travel, whatre they up to, srs question

lag∞n, Friday, 20 January 2012 15:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

xxp The whole Dale Farm farago a case in point when it comes to trying to reconcile the Traveller lifestyle and behavioural norms with planning and other council regulations IIRC. Of course all that ties into attitudinal issues and issues to do with prejudice towards travellers.

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is that the big site in Essex?

ENBB, Friday, 20 January 2012 15:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes, as was. Not heard much about it since the evictions TBH- no longer considered "news" I suppose.

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's a big change atm, i don't know what internal debate process is taking place but certainly they're settling in growing numbers and leaving camps/caravans/transiency behind

There's been an explosion in traveller population in recent years due to young families returning from england because of housing initiatives available here since 2004 or so, leading to inevitable complaints of queue-skipping etc

Nobody would be too happy to see a traveller family move next door either, it's worth pointing out, and it's be remiss of me to dismiss that as nothing but prejudice, you would have a lot higher instance of antisocial behaviour among traveller familes as opposed to settled tbh

(govtname)mac (darraghmac), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

neil- many of those families moved to a ?legal? site nearby iirc

(govtname)mac (darraghmac), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

yes- but more legal shenanigans by the look of it: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/19/dale-farm-travellers-eviction-battle?newsfeed=true

good luck in your pyramid (Neil S), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

As far as i know, until the 1990s local authorities in England were forced by law to provide halting sites for nomadic populations. That was abolished, forcing travellers and nomadic Roma groups to settle on private land, which causes all sorts of problems.

At the same time, there's also a responsibility to house them in regular council developments should they wish to take up that option. More and more, in the UK at least, are doing that because it's not worth the hassle of moving from one site to the next, waiting to be evicted.

Mohombi Khush Hua (ShariVari), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

heh you wouldn't know by my constant waffling but i'm on a phone so can't access articles in real time, will take a look later

(govtname)mac (darraghmac), Friday, 20 January 2012 15:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

2.40, 3.20, 4.15 for the real action moments

pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 23:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

I just learned Garda is the police? Man, at least one dn makes more sense now.

mh, Wednesday, 9 May 2012 23:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

now i'm watchin fights, can't help it

pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Wednesday, 9 May 2012 23:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I watched Knuckle the other week. Those fuckin guys.

my father will guide me up the stairs to bed (anagram), Thursday, 10 May 2012 09:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is this what is meant by "I've a horse outside"?

i will show you fear in a handful of nuts (how's life), Thursday, 10 May 2012 12:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

broadly yes, tbh

pet tommy & the barkhaters (darraghmac), Thursday, 10 May 2012 12:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

connors family convicted of forced labour, nasty fuckin details tbh

first u get the flower, then u get the honey, then u get the stamen (darraghmac), Friday, 14 December 2012 14:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Irish Travelers use a secret argot or cant known as Gammon. It is used primarily to conceal meaning from outsiders, especially during business transactions and in the presence of police. Most Gammon utterances are terse and spoken so quickly that a non-Traveler might conclude the words merely had been garbled. Most Gammon words were formed from Irish Gaelic by applying four techniques: reversal, metathesis, affixing, and substitution. In the first, an Irish word is reversed to form a Gammon one - mac, or son, in Irish became kam in Gammon. In the second, consonants or consonant clusters were transposed. Thirdly, a sound or cluster of sounds were either prefixed or suffixed to an Irish word. Some of the more frequently prefixed sounds were s, gr, and g. For example, Obair, work or job, became gruber in Gammon. Lastly, many Gammon words were formed by substituting an arbitrary consonant or consonant cluster in an Irish word. In recent years, modern slang and Romani (the language of the gypsies) words have been incorporated. The grammar and syntax are English. The first vocabulary collected from Irish Travelers was published in 1808, indicating that Gammon dates at least back to the 1700s. But many early Celtic scholars who studied it, including the eminent Kuno Meyer, concluded it was much older.

i was gonna try to learn java or c# or something useful, but doesn't this sound fun?

b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

that sounds like bullshit.

Say Bo to a (Fizzles), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean more fun, but bullsjit.

Say Bo to a (Fizzles), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

when you've heard it spoken it sounds like idk what

b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

tbf i could say the same about english as spoken round my way so pinch of salt with yr gammon

b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeh for sure. English is one of the most skewed accents I've heered.

Say Bo to a (Fizzles), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

idk the whole secret cant feels too organised a concept. cant/jargon feels like a general language thing.

Say Bo to a (Fizzles), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

dont all languages have thieves cants

How many of these effluential surveys do you take? (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

russian certainly does

lombards probably describe all southern dialects thusly

How many of these effluential surveys do you take? (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

apparently the 'secrecy' aspect is overstressed

xp probably

i remember after moving the 15th or 16th time all the travellers kids in the new town assumed i was one of em and kept addressing me in gammon for like 3-4 months it was weird

b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

do you look like your parents? maybe you are secretly a traveller by blood and they knew it

mh, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 01:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

by the time you've moved 15 times the blood kinda starts to become insignificant tbph

b'hurt's tauntin' (darraghmac), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 02:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Cockney rhyming slang and Polari are generally talked about as being "secret" argots as well, i think. idk how true that is in the case of the former.

Head Cheerleader, Homecoming Queen and part-time model (ShariVari), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 09:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

Is Gammon the same as shelta?

questino (seandalai), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 12:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

Ah, apparently so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta

questino (seandalai), Wednesday, 30 January 2013 12:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

that's lightweight gammon

dog latin, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 12:55 (1 year ago) Permalink


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