NEW AMERYKAH, POLL 1 (4th World War)

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first part of master teacher VERSUS even better sly stone groove second part of master teacher would be a better poll.

does anyone hating the ramp track ever listen to those ghostface records where he pushes play and raps on top? how do you live with yourselves?

schlump, Monday, 5 January 2009 17:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

The second half of "Master Teacher" sounds a lot like an auto-accompaniment setting on this Casio I used to have. (NB: This is awesome.)

xhuxk e. xheese (jaymc), Monday, 5 January 2009 17:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

didn't she record some of the album on garageband, appara?

doggy1998: im only only 10 and i listen to music like this (stevie), Monday, 5 January 2009 17:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

I've heard that she wrote a lot of it on Garageband (like, as demos), but I don't know how much of that made it onto the album proper.

xhuxk e. xheese (jaymc), Monday, 5 January 2009 17:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

quite a bit of it, id say. a lot of it has that slightly headphone masterpiece-y, getting these ideas down and not bothering to change them afterwards feel to it.

titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 5 January 2009 17:56 (5 years ago) Permalink

saying 'filler' feels very wrong. you can say songs you dont like or whatever but when a project is so self-aware + 'artiste'-ish "filler" just feels like the totally wrong word to indicate what you're trying to say here. "I need to fill up this album to be released from my record contract!"??? really?

choom gangsta (deej), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah..."filler" is a pretty abstract concept in general, but when you're talking about an album that's the first in a series of 2 or 3 albums that the artist made in the same timeframe, it's an even more amorphous idea.

some dude, Monday, 5 January 2009 18:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

does anyone hating the ramp track ever listen to those ghostface records where he pushes play and raps on top? how do you live with yourselves?

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― schlump, Monday, January 5, 2009 9:05 AM Bookmark

I keep wondering this. As for the "filler" charges, the album is FAR FAR MORE than the sum of its parts. Each song greatly effects the context of the others and this goes for the weaker songs as well as for the stronger. Also, those you don't like part 1 of "Master Teacher" are utter raving lunatics.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

erykah's pitch-shifted voices don't add anywhere near as much as a ghostface rap

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yes they do. It sets up the whole album, and is pretty damn funny to boot.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

I always skip the intro but I don't hate it; I just always want to start out on "The Healer".

^likes black girls (HI DERE), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

(then usually I skip back to the beginning of "The Healer" and listen to it again)

^likes black girls (HI DERE), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

^this (rev). they still make me smile/loosen me up/get me ready for the record even now

k3vin k., Monday, 5 January 2009 18:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

"does anyone hating the ramp track ever listen to those ghostface records where he pushes play and raps on top? how do you live with yourselves?"

i hate those too actually, although i prefer erykahs song more, just cos its still a great song. but soul and hip hop have diff rules. its not even the same thing actually - erykah isnt singing over the vocals of the ramp song like ghostface was, just the instrumental parts.

titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

Okay, now you've gone from RONG (opinion-wise) to RONG (factually). She does talk over the vocals from the RAMP song.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

Also, neither soul or hiphop have rules.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

first track is really my favourite because of the impact on first listen and yeah it's the most FUN(k) thing on this

Timezilla vs Mechadistance (blueski), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

^^^

Some people on this thread sound like:

I refuse to accept recontexualisation.

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― Geir Hongro, Monday, October 6, 2008 8:33 AM Bookmark

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

I like every last thing on this album. If I denigrate the second half of "Master Teacher," it's only to counteract the bizarre anti-first-half sentiment.

Eric H., Monday, 5 January 2009 18:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

ok i cant remember right now if she talks over the original vocals or not. either way, that song just felt a bit 'hammy' (despite being one of my fave songs on the album, flaws and all, just cos its so fierce and as said above, FUNKY). sort of like the neosoul equivalent of a tarantino film. its amazing live though. she should have done it with the band on the record. the reason i said rules is cos neo soul artists always pride themselves on continuing in the tradition of the greats, but i dont really equate singing over old funk/soul loops as being in that tradition. but then i remember erykahs been singing over loops since the first album, as have several other, so, hey, that little bug bear of mine doesnt really mean much.

the 1st half of master teacher is fine, i like the woozy loop, but the second half is divine.

titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yes, the first half has a bizarre half-dreamy, half-clumsy lope that I love.

Eric H., Monday, 5 January 2009 18:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

I don't think (m)any people here are saying that track 1 sucks, just that it being heavily sample-based makes it harder to call it a "song" rather than an "intro," or at least not one of the best songs or a favorite.

some dude, Monday, 5 January 2009 18:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

georgia anne still sucks though lol. i like the fact that theres someone singing so fucking weirdly, just not the actual singing.

titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

dudes it's not like i don't get sampling/recontextualization, come on. i just think it's a really lazy track and i wish she would have done more to make it her own.

xp

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

I have no problem with that. I more or less regard it as an intro myself, but DAMN WHAT AN INTRO. xxp

Georgia Anne rox u r all gay.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

The effort isn't the point, the point is that it does what it does, which is set the record off in tremendous fashion.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

okay. maybe i will just kick off my next album off with a prince track.

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

That would be awesome!

^likes black girls (HI DERE), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

if you can make it that funny and enjoyable then GLHF! xp

k3vin k., Monday, 5 January 2009 18:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

Blatant reducto ad absurdium.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

Reductio ad absurdum, rather. lol malapropism

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

(now i'm just being a dick, sorry)

xp

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

not any more reductionist than comparing me to geir because i don't like this particular track

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

fair enough

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 18:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

i disagree but calling something the neosoul equivalent of a tarantino film deserves an otm. it just has to be applied to something else first. and i was having trouble believing anyone could really summon any hatred for master teacher pt 2. part one is great. it pops up on that jank random record someone mentioned here a while back.

i never knew the first song was ramp, but it's funny, because i always used to think it was a good example of something new drawing on old stuff without being too indebted. like it's obviously some kinda drells sly stone groove track, but it didn't seem too reverent or retro. maybe it's because of everything on top.

schlump, Monday, 5 January 2009 19:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

Jordan's totally otm and u dudes sound like chumps.

how many of you guys are always bumping the illmatic intro like "what a classic nas track!!!!"

the ghostface example doesnt make any sense as a pt of comparison

an intro functions as an intro, stop trying to make it something diff

choom gangsta (deej), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:14 (5 years ago) Permalink

i never knew the first song was ramp, but it's funny, because i always used to think it was a good example of something new drawing on old stuff without being too indebted. like it's obviously some kinda drells sly stone groove track, but it didn't seem too reverent or retro. maybe it's because of everything on top.

― schlump, Monday, January 5, 2009 1:29 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this doesnt make any sense -- 'reverent' or 'retro' is not the issues. its just the o.g. track w/ talking over it. thats it.

choom gangsta (deej), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

deej lemme tell you a lil bit about sampling and recontextualization, and then lemme hang myself for being a dunderhead.

expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

I always listen to the intro when I listen to Illmatic.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

the talking works though, it ruptures the original and is slightly frightening in a way that sets the tone for the album proper

(i mean i'm not defending it as anything other than an intro but on those terms it works)

lex pretend, Monday, 5 January 2009 21:27 (5 years ago) Permalink

maybe it would feel more like an intro if it was shorter, as it is it's longer than the healer.

Tracy Michael Jordan Catalano (Jordan), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

if anything it lulls you into thinking the rest of the LP is gonna be that raucous. and it may be an intro but it's not just a mantra on loop ala My People or Master Teachers - you could argue that as lazier but i'm cool with all these things really.

Timezilla vs Mechadistance (blueski), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

"how many of you guys are always bumping the illmatic intro like "what a classic nas track!!!!"

plz, don't give people here more reason to be challopsy, this is just asking for it.
anyway, new america > the genesis. i treat erykah's as if it were an actual song...its got important context in the album and it was the first track on this that i really really liked, if only because it made me laugh the first time

k3vin k., Monday, 5 January 2009 21:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

i think it 'works' as an intro i just think that calling it 'recontextualization! lets have serious art discussion about a jacked track that she talks over!!' is some serious silliness, beyond ppl challopsing about the grey album

choom gangsta (deej), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

Whatever, I feel strongly about this.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

Can we pretend I never brought the geir quote into this?

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

I mean, I meant that facetiously, and y'all are acting like it's the crux of my argument.

Jedi Mind Trick Daddy (The Reverend), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

i dont get why people are dismissing it as just an intro. its a full blown song.

titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

how so

choom gangsta (deej), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

i mean its a full blown RAMP song, not a full blown erykah song

choom gangsta (deej), Monday, 5 January 2009 21:52 (5 years ago) Permalink


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