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Their business model wrt gm plants is incredibly sleazy, too, regardless of the ecological effects

Do you know what the secret of comity is? (Michael White), Wednesday, 11 January 2012 22:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

why would you like to defend Monsanto

― locally sourced stabbage (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, January 11, 2012 5:03 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah i had this exact question....

tyga mother (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 11 January 2012 22:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

For fun and profit.

Jeff, Wednesday, 11 January 2012 22:38 (3 years ago) Permalink

Monsanto sucks in a lot of ways but the "tinkering with nature" hysteria is really tiresome. Most of the (non-GMO) plants and animals we eat have already been aberrations to "nature" for hundreds or thousands of years thanks to selective breeding.

Oh shit, that's my bone! (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 11 January 2012 22:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

Even if I didn't mind tampering with my food, Monsanto would be the last entity I'd want touching it.

*tera, Wednesday, 11 January 2012 22:56 (3 years ago) Permalink


puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Wednesday, 11 January 2012 22:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

Some argue that deregulation is the best way to combat this, because the little guys just can't deal with it (I know wacky idea, and not one I entirely agree with).

Monsanto doesn't think it's a wacky idea!

Milton Parker, Thursday, 12 January 2012 00:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

Not only was it exposed that the U.S. is threatening nations who oppose Monsanto with military-style trade wars, but that many U.S. diplomats actually work directly for Monsanto.

In 2007 it was requested that specific nations inside the European Union be punished for not supporting the expansion of Monsanto's GMO crops. The request for such measures to be taken was made by Craig Stapleton, the United States ambassador to France and partner to George W. Bush. Despite mounting evidence linking Monsanto's GM corn to organ damage and environmental devastation, the ambassador plainly calls for 'target retaliation' against those not supporting the GM crop. In the leaked documents, Stapleton states:

"Country team Paris recommends that we calibrate a target retaliation list that causes some pain across the EU since this is a collective responsibility, but that also focuses in part on the worst culprits. The list should be measured rather than vicious and must be sustainable over the long term, since we should not expect an early victory. Moving to retaliation will make clear that the current path has real costs to EU interests and could help strengthen European pro-biotech voices."

Milton Parker, Monday, 23 January 2012 19:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

I know it's not the main problem being addressed in this article, but I've seen the organ damage study referenced a lot. Just to refute that, here is one scientist's take on the problems with the study and conclusions reached:

Trade wars, government corrupt, environmental devastation, sure, I wouldn't put it past them. But organ damage from GMO corn, not likely.

Jeff, Monday, 23 January 2012 20:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

Not that this is a totally reassuring thought, but if there was a food product introduced into the mainstream food supply -- one that, in fact, was found in almost EVERYTHING we eat -- and it caused organ failure, wouldn't you see a sudden and alarming rise in organ failure?

frogBaSeball (Hurting 2), Monday, 23 January 2012 20:45 (3 years ago) Permalink



though the last three paragraphs are hardly reassuring

Milton Parker, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 01:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

there was an essay i remember reading in one of those alt-collections from the 90s (i think) - either Apocalypse Culture or Amok Journal or something like that - about how the invention of agriculture ruined human society. does anyone else know of this?

this was prob Jared Diamond?

i love pinfold cricket (gbx), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 01:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

it's a common anti-civ talking point, see Derrick Jensen, John Zerzan, Chellis Glendinning, etc. Diamond would fit in there as well.

sleeve, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 01:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

I mean he wrote a lil piece that had exactly that as its thesis.

i love pinfold cricket (gbx), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 01:35 (3 years ago) Permalink


i love pinfold cricket (gbx), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 01:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure this guy is an evil tool head but it's hard to defend raw milk. Seriously.

Jeff, Sunday, 5 February 2012 23:11 (3 years ago) Permalink

I'm trying to be careful with what I post to this thread, because for whatever reason the anti-Monsanto sentiment is already at fever pitch right now; countless FB posts with a lot of false information (Monsanto owns Blackwater), old information or hyperbole (whole foods)

But cracking down on the Amish with armed raids for selling their own milk seems a little extreme?

Milton Parker, Sunday, 5 February 2012 23:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

Actually I'll back down on this one a bit, reading up on the raw milk craze of the last ten years. I don't suspect these kinds of raids as base acts of removing the competition, but if they really are pulling guns on the Amish, that does seem like an overreaction

Milton Parker, Sunday, 5 February 2012 23:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

True, agree. Just ask them nicely to hand it over.

Jeff, Sunday, 5 February 2012 23:48 (3 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

my 4-5 facebook friends who occasionally post about chemtrails are all about the Mansato hate right now

Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Thursday, 1 March 2012 08:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

also Monsanto

Big Mr. Guess U.S.A. Champion (crüt), Thursday, 1 March 2012 08:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Gus Mansanto

I have one thing to say: "Roxanne Shanté" (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 1 March 2012 14:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Monsanto, the massive biotechnology company being blamed for contributing to the dwindling bee population, has bought up one of the leading bee collapse research organizations. Recently banned from Poland with one of the primary reasons being that the company’s genetically modified corn may be devastating the dying bee population, it is evident that Monsanto is under serious fire for their role in the downfall of the vital insects. It is therefore quite apparent why Monsanto bought one of the largest bee research firms on the planet.

Milton Parker, Monday, 23 April 2012 21:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

The most recent Harvard study linked Bee Colony Collapse Disorder to imidacloprid - a pesticide. Not corn or corn syrup. The pesticide can be transmitted via corn syrup or pollen the report said. Nothing to do with genetically modified corn. This story got changed somewhat to "Pesticide-laden corn syrup lead to CCD" which not what the study demonstrated.

I don't know of a credible report that links CCD to genetically modified corn. Anyone?

everything, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

By the way, when I said "this got changed somewhat" I mean some websites who report on environmental issues reported it that way and it got passed around Facebook etc like that.

everything, Monday, 23 April 2012 22:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

11 months pass...

what is the deal with the "Monsanto Protection Act"? Seeing this phrase on facebook, but

SEC. 735. In the event that a determination of non-regulated
status made pursuant to section 411 of the Plant Protection Act
is or has been invalidated or vacated, the Secretary of Agriculture
shall, notwithstanding any other provision of law, upon request
by a farmer, grower, farm operator, or producer, immediately grant
temporary permit(s) or temporary deregulation in part, subject to
necessary and appropriate conditions consistent with section 411(a)
or 412(c) of the Plant Protection Act, which interim conditions
shall authorize the movement, introduction, continued cultivation,
commercialization and other specifically enumerated activities and
requirements, including measures designed to mitigate or minimize
potential adverse environmental effects, if any, relevant to the
Secretary’s evaluation of the petition for non-regulated status, while
ensuring that growers or other users are able to move, plant,
cultivate, introduce into commerce and carry out other authorized
activities in a timely manner: Provided, That all such conditions
shall be applicable only for the interim period necessary for the
Secretary to complete any required analyses or consultations related
to the petition for non-regulated status: Provided further, That
nothing in this section shall be construed as limiting the Secretary’s
authority under section 411, 412 and 414 of the Plant Protection

how's life, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

what are barack obama's flaws?

THIZZ VAN LEER @_@ (lpz), Thursday, 28 March 2013 04:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

he's so perfect that he intimidates everyone else

your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Thursday, 28 March 2013 23:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

it's possible that he cares TOO much. also, sometimes he may be a little too good at doing things, which can discourage those around him who feel that they cannot "keep up". sometimes, arguably, he works too hard - again, intimidating his co-workers.

your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Thursday, 28 March 2013 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't form a rational opinion about this issue because I find the anti-GMO crowd to be obscenely obnoxious

Heyman (crüt), Thursday, 28 March 2013 23:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah there's something about the GMO panic crowd that seems just like two notches more sane than the anti-vaccine crowd (and there's obvious overlap) and that prejudices me. I'm mistrustful of monsanto, but I also feel kind of like "Ok, make a case for me WHY it would be dangerous to take a gene from one species and put it in a different species." Like "we don't know all the potential effects" isn't a good enough argument. I have no fucking idea what will happen if I mix my dish soap with some tomato juice, baking soda and pepto bismol and put it in the microwave for 30 seconds, but that doesn't mean I have a good reason to believe it would be dangerous.

i've a cozy little flat in what is known as old man hat (Hurting 2), Friday, 29 March 2013 00:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

p sure that the reason monsanto is bad has more to do with hugeness.

big farming:gmo panic::big pharma:vaccine panic

well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Friday, 29 March 2013 00:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah I am on board with the antitrust and IP concerns, but the "Monsanto Protection Act" seems to be more about food safety fears that don't strike me as warranted.

I found this:

very sorry for linking to anything called "skeptical libertarian" but it's the first site I've found that actually gets into the details of what the legislation actually does, and their analysis mostly sounds convincing

i've a cozy little flat in what is known as old man hat (Hurting 2), Friday, 29 March 2013 01:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

I can't form a rational opinion about this issue because I find the anti-GMO crowd to be obscenely obnoxious

― Heyman (crüt), Thursday, March 28, 2013 11:36 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm, otm for everything tbh

mister borges (darraghmac), Friday, 29 March 2013 01:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

just wanted to belatedly respond to the above post

The most recent Harvard study linked Bee Colony Collapse Disorder to imidacloprid - a pesticide. Not corn or corn syrup. The pesticide can be transmitted via corn syrup or pollen the report said. Nothing to do with genetically modified corn. This story got changed somewhat to "Pesticide-laden corn syrup lead to CCD" which not what the study demonstrated.

I don't know of a credible report that links CCD to genetically modified corn. Anyone?

― everything, Monday, April 23, 2012 10:37 PM (11 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

If it wasn't clear, I was not trying to link CCD directly to genetically modified corn. Of course, use of imidacloprid has increased dramatically with the global marketing of Monsanto's Roundup + Roundup Ready GMO product chain over the last ~15 years.

The European Union has proposed to ban their use on crops frequented by bees. Some researchers have concluded that neonicotinoids caused extensive die-offs in Germany and France.

Neonicotinoids are hardly the beekeepers’ only concern. Herbicide use has grown as farmers have adopted crop varieties, from corn to sunflowers, that are genetically modified to survive spraying with weedkillers. Experts say some fungicides have been laced with regulators that keep insects from maturing, a problem some beekeepers have reported.

Eric Mussen, an apiculturist at the University of California, Davis, said analysts had documented about 150 chemical residues in pollen and wax gathered from beehives.

“Where do you start?” Dr. Mussen said. “When you have all these chemicals at a sublethal level, how do they react with each other? What are the consequences?”

Experts say nobody knows. But Mr. Adee, who said he had long scorned environmentalists’ hand-wringing about such issues, said he was starting to wonder whether they had a point.

Of the “environmentalist” label, Mr. Adee said: “I would have been insulted if you had called me that a few years ago. But what you would have called extreme — a light comes on, and you think, ‘These guys really have something. Maybe they were just ahead of the bell curve.’”

Milton Parker, Friday, 29 March 2013 18:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Of course, use of imidacloprid has increased dramatically with the global marketing of Monsanto's Roundup + Roundup Ready GMO product chain over the last ~15 years.

I had to read a few articles to double-check, but you're talking about a seed treatment as a pesticide and a seed product that has resistance to a herbicide. The two may have both become popular in the same timeframe, but they're not otherwise related?

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Friday, 29 March 2013 18:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

Hurting 2, that article you linked referred to "GMO expert Gregory Conko." Google tells me that Conko is better known as a right-wing thinktank guy who writes predictable articles

Gregory Conko is a senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute in Washington, DC.
Henry I. Miller, a physician and fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution, was the founding director of the FDA's Office of Biotechnology.

curmudgeon, Friday, 29 March 2013 18:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

they became popular in the same timeframe because they are being marketed by Monsanto as an integrated line of products

Roundup = their herbicide, patented in the 70's
Roundup Ready = their line of GM seeds which somehow does not die when you spray Roundup on it, 1996

if a company is good at making poison, and at making food, why not combine those two into one irresistible product?

Milton Parker, Friday, 29 March 2013 18:57 (2 years ago) Permalink

Milton, imidacloprid is an insecticide and Roundup (glyphosate) is an herbicide

☠ ☃ ☠ (mh), Friday, 29 March 2013 18:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

apologies for my conflation, I hear your point clearly now. Admittedly a bit emotional after reading that ny times article.

imidacloprid is apparently not Monsanto, it is Bayer?

Milton Parker, Friday, 29 March 2013 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

that changes everything. I love asprin.

Milton Parker, Friday, 29 March 2013 19:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

mon petit santo

buzza, Friday, 29 March 2013 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink


so we have the published anti-GMO cliches on one side and the conservative thinktank and libertarian ones on the other...

curmudgeon, Saturday, 30 March 2013 18:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

ah dammit didn't think of searching for a thread with this title

quite strangly im attracted to the lass (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 30 March 2013 18:54 (2 years ago) Permalink

When it became law that corporations could patent organisms, we saw one of the most breathtaking power grabs ever devised. The difficulty with putting all this power to fuck with the foundations of life on earth into the hands of mega corporations is that mega corporations are greedy, short-sighted, profit-driven entitities which will predictably act to fuck over everyone on earth if it will enrich their corporate officers and shareholders and bury the competition. If the Chief Executive Lizard of Monsanto (or Bayer) could with impugnity become the new Pharoah, it would not blink twice before it reached for that crown and scepter.

Aimless, Saturday, 30 March 2013 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yeah this "Monsanto Protection Act" thing I'm like 90% sure after reading it that it's pretty minor. It basically prevents federal courts from IMMEDIATELY, during an interim period, halting the use/planting/sale of GMO foods in the event of some kind of adverse finding. But federal courts are not typically the avenue by which food safety is regulated anyway -- in fact as far as I can tell the only reason this provision even exists is that certain GMO foods have been given a special regulated status that other foods don't have, so the provision only comes into play if a regulatory body decides to deregulate them and then a court tries to stop them from doing that.

In any case, this certainly does not in any way "protect Monsanto from litigation" as some people are claiming.

i've a cozy little flat in what is known as old man hat (Hurting 2), Monday, 1 April 2013 16:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

Like, farmers can still sue Monsanto, individual consumers can still sue Monsanto, the Government can still sue Monsanto.

i've a cozy little flat in what is known as old man hat (Hurting 2), Monday, 1 April 2013 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

but I also feel kind of like "Ok, make a case for me WHY it would be dangerous to take a gene from one species and put it in a different species." Like "we don't know all the potential effects" isn't a good enough argument.

fyi we have been cross-breeding for over 100 years, which is a form of genetic modification, except with traditional cross-breeding you introduce all of the traits/genes of one plant into another instead of just the aspects that you want (whereas w/ science lab-y genetic modification you can isolate just the traits/genes that you want to introduce into the new strain); in a lot of ways sciencey genetic modification can be *safer* than traditional cross-breeding, which the anti-GMO crowd seems to have v little qualms with. Like, at this point, iirc virtually everything has been genetically modified at some point due to cross-breeding.

All that is from my friend who is pursuing a PhD in genetics at Yale.

Room 227 (Stevie D(eux)), Thursday, 4 April 2013 14:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

the evidence that GM food is harmful is still very weak, though

I agree with you, but this paper suggests that the only reason why that is so is probably because no one has yet done the research. and while the minimal research that has been done is far from definitive, it is already far from encouraging -- the only mammals which were tested before market were rats, which developed kidney & liver problems within 3-5 months -- not long enough to prove causation, but that's been the extent of the testing. there's that, and there's the Bt toxins showing up in blood tests instead of being filtered by our livers as advertised:

there was no popular vote to allow this into 87% of our corn supply, and therefore most of what we use to feed our animal livestock, which we then eat. when it comes to the wisdom of splicing a protein that causes an insect's stomach to explode into our own food chain, I would think the burden of proof would be on those arguing for, not those against -- and what this paper is telling us is that the burden has really not been met

Milton Parker, Monday, 6 May 2013 01:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

the wikipedia post on these issues links to rebuttals on both of the studies I mention:

I understand why some have become allergic to anti-GMO activism, especially now that it's reached peak level facebook .jpg dissemination, and I'm pro-GMO research in the abstract. I've certainly got more to read about this, and I appreciate the conversation.

Milton Parker, Monday, 6 May 2013 01:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Harking back to my points made upthread, if a corporation holds a patent on a GMO, it is in the interest of that corporation to protect that patent from anything which may tend to lessen its eventual profitability. Hence, if a corporation is required to provide studies and data upon the safety of introducing a GMO into the general environment, it is in the interests of that corporation to provide the very least data acceptable to regulators and to present it in the most favorable possible light.

A market-oriented conservative might argue that the true interest of the corporation is to do due diligence and avoid the liability of introducing a harmful product, but this overlooks the obvious fact that few of their customers will have the financial means or the sophistication to supplement the corporation's original faulty research with better research of greater depth and breadth, and that most government regulatory agencies or research universities can be co-opted through political influence or money. Therefore, if the product makes big profits, those same profits can be used to subvert the system and protect the corporation from liability.

Aimless, Monday, 6 May 2013 05:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

it's easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission

your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Monday, 6 May 2013 12:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

Some critics have emphasized that no adverse effects have been reported on either farm animals or in the human population of the USA who have consumed an unknown mixture GMO crop derived food. Such claims are scientifically unsound for the following reasons. First, it is important to note that there have been neither epidemiological studies of the human population nor monitoring of farm animals in an attempt to correlate any ill-health observed with the consumption of a given GM crop. Second, it should be recalled that farm animals are not reared to live for the entire duration of their natural lifespan, and thus usually do not live long enough to develop long-term chronic diseases, which contrasts with the rats in our life-long experiment. If any studies in lactating cows are conducted, biological analyses performed are far less complete than those done in regulatory tests using rodents including in our study. Third, as there is no labeling of GMO food and feed in the USA, the amount consumed is unknown, and no “control group” exists. Thus, without a clear traceability or labeling, no epidemiological survey can be performed.

This is from Séralini's 'Answers to critics: Why there is a long term toxicity due to a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize and to a Roundup herbicide'

The journal that published the study has responded to critics by inventing a new position on their board for an ex-Monsanto employee. The comments on this article are concerning:

A peer-reviewed study on Bt mammal toxicity pulled after publication:

Milton Parker, Monday, 20 May 2013 19:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

someone on FB posted this "simple list of companies to avoid"

so all I have to do is make sure my money never ever ends up in the hands of people who drink soft drinks... got it.

crüt, Wednesday, 29 May 2013 18:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

Also, be absolutely sure that your money never ends up in the hands of Hershey's Nestle!

how's life, Wednesday, 29 May 2013 19:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

Wheat in Chicago fell, headed for the biggest monthly loss since February, after Japan suspended imports from the U.S., where the government discovered an unapproved, genetically modified strain growing in an Oregon field.

Japan, the biggest buyer of U.S. wheat behind Mexico, suspended imports of western-white wheat and feed wheat from the U.S., said Hiromi Iwahama, the director for grain trade and operation at the agriculture ministry. Scientists said the rogue wheat in Oregon was a strain tested from 1998 to 2005 by Monsanto Co. (MON), the world’s top seedmaker. Japan also canceled a purchase of 24,926 metric tons of white wheat.

Milton Parker, Friday, 31 May 2013 20:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

gree hee hee

ttyih boi (crüt), Friday, 31 May 2013 20:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

This is front page news in Oregon, it is a big deal.

Flat Of NAGLs (sleeve), Friday, 31 May 2013 21:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

huh, i never knew Oregon was a wheat producer

lipitor retriever (brownie), Friday, 31 May 2013 22:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Now the proud owners of Blackwater aka Xe Services (and now Academi?)

the Spanish Porky's (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 21 July 2013 23:42 (1 year ago) Permalink

wait really? googling it there's much noise on this subject but everyone's source seems to be this three-year-old scahill article about monsanto being one of blackwater's clients. it's got this hilariously scary bit

One of the most incendiary details in the documents is that Blackwater, through Total Intelligence, sought to become the "intel arm" of Monsanto, offering to provide operatives to infiltrate activist groups organizing against the multinational biotech firm.

which i hadn't known (although note "sought to"), but it doesn't say monsanto bought the company. the two highest results for "monsanto blackwater" are articles called, respectively, "Yes, Monsanto Actually DID Buy the BLACKWATER Mercenary Group!" and "No, Monsanto actually DIDN'T buy Blackwater." the former does not fill me w confidence:

Xe (now Academi) has, indeed, been purchased, and while there’s no way of DOCUMENTING who the new owners really are, the logical conclusion would be that Monsanto, who had been employing them prior to the sale are the new owners.

idk if that's the logical conclusion. still, plenty to get high and contemplate for doomy thrills in biotech giants buddying up to mercenary crusader giants even without outright purchase.

"""""""""""""stalin""""""""""" (difficult listening hour), Monday, 22 July 2013 00:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

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