Black Sabbath: Classic or Dud?

I'll say it again, Ozzy and Ward are the weak links. Ozzy is a clown and Ward has lost his muscle.

Also, they all clearly hate each other, which tends to dampen spirits. And Sharon has a way of killing everything she touches.

^^^ Iommi sock spotted.

Again, I disagree on Ozzy's weakness. I saw him play last year and the set was more than two hours long, something like 17 or 18 songs, and his voice was strong throughout. I think he knew with Rob Halford as his opening act, he had to step his game up, but he's just staging a for-real comeback in the last few years. I just saw the movie God Bless Ozzy Osbourne last night and it seems he's been clean and sober for real for the last five years, so he really is in better physical health than when I saw him with Sabbath in '05 (when he'd just started to clean up). Now Ward is not the drummer he once was. But as long as he retains his sense of swing and can lock in with Butler the way they did in the '70s, triggering can solve problems of actual force live.

I think you also nail why Ozzy was good when you saw him. That guy's voice live these days is not exactly ... unsweetened. At least, that's my suspicion. But hey, I hope this is awesome.

Is there anyone in any field more overrated than rick rubin?

Classic for their run of work from 1970 until 1975, definitely. I'd put the first album with Dio on the classic pile as well. Dud for pretty much everything else, although there are moments here and there which could be kept. Any live version of 'Dirty Women' beats the pants off the studio cut.

Dude you just dissed mob rules prepare to dire

Current-day Halford opening for current day Ozzy = blasphemous

also,

Is there anyone in any field more overrated than rick rubin?

^^^this

Statement on Black Sabbath Album & Tour: Los Angeles, CA – February 2, 2012

Dear Sabbath Fans, Fellow Musicians and Interested Parties, At this time, I would love nothing more than to be able to proceed with the Black Sabbath album and tour. However, I am unable to continue unless a "signable" contract is drawn up; a contract that reflects some dignity and respect toward me as an original member of the band. Last year, I worked diligently in good faith with Tony, Ozzy and Geezer. And on 11/11/11, again in good faith, I participated in the L.A. press conference. Several days ago, after nearly a year of trying to negotiate, another “unsignable” contract was handed to me. Let me say that although this has put me in some kind of holding pattern, I am packed and ready to leave the U.S. for England. More importantly, I definitely want to play on the album, and I definitely want to tour with Black Sabbath. Since the news of Tony's illness, and the understanding that the band would move production to the U.K., I've spent everyday getting to or living in a place of readiness to leave. That involves something of a task, and as I've tried to find out what's going on with the U.K. sessions, I've realized that I've been getting "the cold shoulder" (and, I might add, not for the first time). Feeling somewhat ostracized, my guess is as of today, I will know nothing of what'shappening unless I sign "the unsignable contract." The place I'm in feels lousy and lonely because as much as I want to play and participate, Ialso have to stand for something and not sign on. If I sign as-is, I stand to lose my rights, dignity and respectability as a rock musician. I believe in freedom and freedom of speech. I grew up in a hard rock/metal band. We stood for something then, and we played from the heart with honesty and sincerity. I am in the spirit of integrity, far from the corporate malady, I am real and honest, fair and compassionate. If I'm replaced, I have to face you, the beloved Sabbath fans. I hope you will not hold me responsible for the failure of an original Black Sabbath lineup as promoted. Without fault finding, I want to assure everyone that my loyalty to Sabbath is intact. So here I am. I lay my truth down before you. I'm good to go IF I get a “signable” contract. I don't want to let anyone down, especially Black Sabbath and all the Sabbath fans. You know I love you. It would be a sad day in Rock if this current situation fell to the desires of a few. My position is not greed-driven. I'm not holding out for a "big piece" of the action (money) like some kind of blackmail deal. I’d like something that recognizes and is reflective of my contributions to the band, including the reunions that started fourteen years ago. After the last tour I vowed to never again sign on to an unreasonable contract. I want a contract that shows some respect to me and my family, a contract that will honor all that I've brought to Black Sabbath since its beginning. That's the story so far. Stay safe and stay strong. I love every single one of you. --Bill Ward

Go Bill

I can't believe the Osbourne camp would try to take advantage of any situation. They never do that.

Not at all surprised, but fuck this really bums me out. If I lose my chance to see these guys because of Osbourne dickishness I'll be so pissed off.

bill magill to thread

I mean, I'm 100% behind Bill Ward assuming what he is saying is true, but I was really excited for this album and tour.

I'd be really surprised if this is anything else but Sharon's machinations. This is the same people that OVERDUBBED out the bass and drums on Ozzy's first album to keep from paying royalties.

maybe they could just avoid Osbourne altogether and get Ian Gillan back in the band.

Watch, the tour and album will end up being Ozzy + Black Label Society as his backing band or some shit.

This happened the last time they reunited. Exact same thing, this is total deja vu. Ward ended up playing.

Count me in the Ward camp here. Embarrassing.

Iommi and Butler need to show some stones here. Back your old mate. We were promised the original Black Sabbath.

need to know exactly what it is in the contract that Ward doesn't like tbh

Probably giving up publishing or something like that. The original Sabs all shared writing credits for all songs.

^^^

difficult not to suspect Sharon in this

If Ward does end up playing, I'm sure Sharon will just man the sound booth to turn him down before pelting him with dozens of eggs at the end of each show.

It is my hope that tomorrow it will turn out that Bill gets to play and no one will ever really know the details of the contract or who was behind it sharon.

This is obviously Sharon and her lapdog Ozzy.

RIP Dio. Bring back Heaven and Hell with Bruce Dickinson or somebody, because this Sabbath thing seems to be toast.

Or the Gillan lineup as was mentioned above, maybe Ward would be up for that one. Or Bev Bevan.

how about Tony 'Nyan Cat' Martin?

Absolutely not. Fuck that guy.

We were saddened to hear yesterday via Facebook that Bill declined publicly to participate in our current Black Sabbath plans...we have no choice but to continue recording without him although our door is always open... We are still in the UK with Tony. Writing and recording the new album and on a roll... See you at Download!!!

- Tony, Ozzy and Geezer

fuck 'em

No band gets great without a great drummer. Ward is certainly no exception.

I'd be really surprised if this is anything else but Sharon's machinations. This is the same people that OVERDUBBED out the bass and drums on Ozzy's first album to keep from paying royalties.

iirc, Ozzy didn't even know about this until months after the reissues were in the stores.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ozzy gets to the studio the first day and says, "Wait, where's Bill?"

It'll be Vinny Appice then, more than likely.

If Bill is sitting on his bed in LA patiently waiting for the taxi to call, he'll be there a long time. His transparent effort to get fans to persuade Ozzy & Co. to support Ward is likely to backfire, especially when all focus is now on Tony Iommi’s treatment for lymphoma, making a new record, and healing old wounds. Perhaps Ward has a point but to the general public, it sounds like sour grapes. At this rate, Ward is likely to be spending the summer watching highlights of the Sabbath reunion on MTV. But in all the fracas, we did get a confirmation Black Sabbath plans to be at the Download festival. Got sticks? Stay tuned. And Go Tony!

http://www.epiphone.com/News/Features/News/2012/Black-Sabbath-Seeks-New-Drummer.aspx

Well, fuck you Sharon. Does anyone know if theres any foundation that Iommi supports? After this bullshit, I think I'm going to take the money I would have spent on the new album and tickets for the tour and donate it in Iommi's name instead of giving one more fucking cent to an organization that would allow a founding member to be treated with such disregard. Awful.

iirc, Ozzy didn't even know about this until months after the reissues were in the stores.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ozzy gets to the studio the first day and says, "Wait, where's Bill?

Very likely otm.

alternately: "Wait, where's who's Bill?"

guilty lol

i really hate entertainment journalists who feign to speak for 'the general public'

Haha, yeah, the "general public" I'm in touch with is squarely on Ward's side on this.

Sharon has some pretty solid connections with Epiphone. A week ago she hosted their roast of Zakk Wylde.

i also like the "got sticks?" thing as if they band will just hold open auditions to any dickhead with a kit

God, i'm sure that was a laugh riot.

xpost

i also like the "got sticks?" thing as if they band will just hold open auditions to any dickhead with a kit

To preempt any sidetracks here, I am in no way equating the state and/or talent of the two bands here, but that is exactly what the Pumpkins did to replace Chamberlin to pretty much disastrous results.

Really? Seems like such a waste of time when you could just put out feelers to established dudes

Yeah, I have no idea why they did it, but Corgan held open auditions (at fucking Guitar Center too, iirc) and ended up going with some 19 year-old kid.

GENIUS

Definitely the smartest way to replace the most talented dude you've ever had in your band.

I would hope that any established drummers steer clear of this out of respect for Ward.

Then again, Ozzy's touring band didn't have any such qualms about jumping on board with Overdubs Of A Madman.

or joining Metallica lol