How comes nobody ever mentions the MC5 round here?

Partly I asked this question 'cos I was wondering why the current crop of 'exciting' white boy rock classicists - The Strokes, The Hives, Black Rebel Motorcyle Club etc - totally avoid ANY kind of overtly 'political' content, unlike the MC5.

And I think Wayne Kramer is one of the all-time great rock guitarists, as if such a thing still matters at this late stage in the game...

I know Braxton isn't typically categorized as "fire," I just mentioned him because he had been mentioned quite a few times already in the thread. And I was also trying to pre-empt any snide comments you might care to throw my way about my ignorance of the matter at hand. I don't want to start a fight or anything, I just feel like you're coming across kind of harshly; it's comments like the ones you've been making lately that give fans of experimental and avant- garde music a bad rep.

Are you quoting someone here, Clarke? 'Cause if you are, I'd like to see the context. Of course if you look hard enough you'll probably find some classicist free jazz musicians, just as you'll find classicists musicians/fans of any genre. But offhand I can't think of any free jazz purists-- and you'd think that if a lot of them were lurking, that Spring Heel Jack record from last year and the new Matt Shipp would've brought them out of the woodwork big time. These were, after all, very high profile releases by just about the most high profile players out there, and if you go over to, like, freejazz.org, you won't see much if any backlash. So I'm not sure how anyone could reasonably argue that "present-day free jazzers" are as classicist as Wynton.

Not completely sure what this adds to the discussion, 'cause I pretty much agree with you, but the sort of sneering Julio's doing, while obnoxious, is only tangentially related to the defensive purist sneering you're talking about in your last post.

mc5 are ok. some good rocking. as for punk coming out of mc5, or the residents or the stooges or beefheart or whatever. it's not a one- band thing anyway.

Well, they didn't pull it off with any sort of conviction.

'I think it's funny that Julio is getting all Free Jazz snob on us'

Not at all I love guitar bands like Dead C and Fuchitsusha for instance, electroacoustic music, free improv and a some indie bands like husker du and low and some punk as well. Don't misinterpret my comments on the MC5 to come up with that conclusion.

'The MC5's 'project' of combining James Brown, Sun Ra and The Who'

Well, I rather listen to james brown and sun ra. Yes, and john sinclair I think had the tapes for 'it is forbidden' (recently issued recording of a gig where the arkestra opened for James brown). They may have had the idea but from the records I don't actually think they did a good at putting together these influences to come up with something new or even something to listen to. The band had no 'dynamics'.

'the worst thing about zappa must be the guitar solos. it's a bunch wanking. zappa without the jokes couldn't be more boring to me. and that seems to be the kinda stuff you are into.'

See my comments up there. Other guitarists I like: Keiji haino, Masayuki takayanagi, Michael Morley, Keith levene, Blood Ulmer, derek bailey, keith rowe and yes, Farnk Zappa.

I always find it problematic when people try to be funny or when they (lyricists) try 'poetical' langague though I love beeefheart's lyrics.

'but the sort of sneering Julio's doing, while obnoxious' It's not obnoxious is it? I used the f-word in my first post but I just refuse to accept this guff abt MC5.

And i just want to add that terms like 'free' in free jazz don't describe the variety within 'it'. But lets not forget that we use such terms so that we can get some discussion going.

(BTW yes i like them tons...best alb. = "High Time"...everything i'd care to say has already been said here tho)

I accept that I might have implied that BUT as I've said before I like rock. I, in fact, love it. Goddamit, its the first i started listening to.

I've never said the MC5 was caveman rock. They tried to match free jazz WITH rock. Just like, say, the stooges and what I've said is that from listening to the records, they don't pull it off.

'Plus, your list of guitarists reads like a "The Insufferable Hipster's Top Ten Guitar Gods" thread on ILM.'

I'm not being a hipster: someone else started it because I said I liked Zappa's guitar playing (because mark asked me whether I liked zappa and if I was a hipster he wouldn't be on my list). So I cited other guitarists that I liked because that person said it was a load of wanking.

Again, I've listened to many more (Others I didn't mention: D. Boon, Bob mould, Stefan jaworzyn, rudolph grey, etc.). These are all really good guitarists that I like and if some people haven't heard them and they haven't listened to some of the records these people were in then they should give it a go.

I think people are being too harsh on Julio though. He's a poster with a limited range of tastes and his position on the MC5 is perfectly consistent. To someone who listens to the stuff he does the MC5 probably sound like Gorillaz do to lots of us, i.e. a misplaced, patronising and botched hybridisation.

Tom- my brother likes Goraillaz, so I got to know what they sound like. Unlucky for me.

The problem isn't really one of limited tastes, but of limited social skills.

tom - nah don't reckon. *everyone* i have *ever known* likes all the same shit he likes,& they all wuv the '5.

And I think I'm prob. guilty of overegging the MC5 jazz-rock pud. Most often they sound like The Who...

I've no problem with people being harsh to me. Because this is a discussion group and I'm providing some disagreement and I'm more than happy to defend my position. This thread would have been over and done with hadn't I done so.

'The problem isn't really one of limited tastes, but of limited social skills. '

You are the one calling me an 'insufferable wank' so you are the one who needs to work on your social skills but thanks I am highly amused.

By the way: I hate a lot of groups that have been give the 'wire' seal of approval as well. Including the MC5.

No, you are! mimes sticking out tongue

(i wasn't calling you a doorag julio, i wuz calling duane doorag a doorag)

I don't care abt insults. Some people will resort to such rubbish but I don't care.

http://www.rcleather.com/images/Doo%20Rag%20-%20041.jpg

http://www.mmurphy11.homestead.com/files/doorag.jpg

Holla

How come no-one ever mentions Blue Cheer round here?

Ah, but the mix of that on Babes in Arms is great.

I never saw the 5 but I did follow Sonic's Rendezvous Band when I lived in Ann Arbor. Fred Smith was an amazing musician, pushing the envelope of every performance like a jazz saxophonist on a roll. Hearing him play was saturating, like swimming in the ocean: you'd wake up the next day still feeling partially immersed, with your ears ringing and a funny taste in your mouth. Kick Out The Jams!

dave q told me I must listen to 'back in the USA' but you know I keep forgetting! maybe its one for the retirement home.

My brother texted me this news this morning. RIP Mike D. MC2 now?

Just reading various stuff about him on the internet this evening and it sounds like he was a genuinely good dude all round.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BuYbahkdFpY/S8_W3jdw2oI/AAAAAAAAADE/sU6lCY8I-Ys/s1600/-2.jpg

woooah, some people here seem to totally miss the point of the mc5. man, this is some fucking batshit freak the fuck out wild music. the energy and vibe they put out is phenomenal and they definitely set a high note for that kinda style. if you don't feel it, that's cool, but I'll never get enough of it.

Hello.

https://www.metrotimes.com/city-slang/archives/2017/06/13/brothers-and-sisters-wayne-kramer-uploads-rare-remastered-mc5-footage-to-youtube

oh wow

Holyyyyy fuck at this:

Wayne Kramer, the founding guitarist and leader of Detroit's proto-punk/hard rock band the MC5, will celebrate the landmark anniversary of its incendiary debut album Kick Out the Jams with the 35+ date "Kick Out the Jams: The 50th Anniversary Tour" and a memoir The Hard Stuff: Dope, Crime, the MC5, and My Life of Impossibilities (Da Capo Press). Kramer has put together his wish-list worthy band of fellow travelers, dubbed MC50 -- Brother Wayne on guitar along with guitarist Kim Thayil (Soundgarden), drummer Brendan Canty (Fugazi), bassist Dug Pinnick (King's X), and the afro'd secret weapon frontman, 6-foot-7-inch Marcus Durant (Zen Guerrilla).

Dug Pinnick on bass, cool. Only festival dates in Europe, though :/

seriously - Pinnick, Thaiyl and Canty could be one of the greatest bands ever assembled

lol at the cruel snapshot of an early ilm argument at the start of this thread

my braxton joke is good tho

We got tour dates:

9/5 - Ft. Lauderdale, FL @ Revolution Live
9/6 - St. Augustine, FL @ Backyard Stage at St. Augustine Amphitheatre
9/7 - Atlanta, GA @ Variety Playhouse
9/8 - Raleigh, NC @ Hopscotch Music Festival
9/9 - Nashville, TN @ Exit/In
9/11 - Washington, DC @ 9:30 Club
9/12 - New Haven, CT @ College Street Music Hall
9/13 - Boston, MA @ Paradise Rock Club
9/14 - Huntington, NY @ The Paramount
9/15 - Philadelphia, PA @ Union Transfer
9/17 - New York, NY @ Irving Plaza
9/18 - Montreal, QC @ Corona Theatre
9/19 - Toronto, ON @ Danforth Music Hall
9/21 - Pittsburgh, PA @ Mr. Smalls Theatre
9/22 - Grand Rapids, MI @ 20 Monroe Live
9/23 - Cleveland, OH @ House of Blues
9/25 - Milwaukee, WI @ Turner Hall Ballroom
9/26 - St. Louis, MO @ The Ready Room
9/28 - Austin, TX @ Mohawk
9/29 - Dallas, TX @ Granada Theater
10/1 - Phoenix, AZ @ The Marquee
10/2 - Las Vegas, NV @ Brooklyn Bowl
10/3 - San Diego, CA @ House of Blues
10/4 - San Francisco, CA @ The Regency Ballroom
10/5 - Los Angeles, CA @ John Anson Ford
10/15 - Portland, OR @ Roseland Theater
10/16 - Seattle, WA @ The Showbox
10/17 - Vancouver, BC @ Commodore Ballroom
10/19 - Salt Lake City, UT @ Metro Music Hall
10/20 - Denver, CO @ Gothic Theatre
10/23 - Minneapolis, MN @ Varsity Theater
10/24 - Chicago, IL @ Metro Chicago
10/25 - Cincinnati, OH @ Bogart's
10/26 - Detroit, MI @ St. Andrew's Hall
10/27 - Detroit, MI @ The Fillmore

And the site to check for more is https://mc50th.com/

house of blues?

sigh

The MC5’s Wayne Kramer Demonstrates the Correct & Official Way to Play “Kick Out the Jams” on the Guitar

I love this dude.

Just saw the DC gig and loved most of it. Kramer looks and sounds great. Canty on drums is a good choice. Didn’t know the Zen Guerillas guy on vocals, but he was decent enough. Cool to hear Kick our Jams, Looking at You, Call Me Animal, Shakin Street and more live.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/do-i-remember-the-68-dnc-riots-dude-i-played-them

I managed to get a UK original "Kick out the Jams" Lp off Discogs for £15, described as "Poor" condition, it was perfectly fine if a bit scratchy.

Listening to the albums again (on Spotify!) after being dazzled by Wayne Kramer and MC50 the other night. Forgetting which MC5 albums I have on vinyl.

Holy moly
https://youtu.be/AmnM-EBWZBM

KOTJ released 50 years ago today.

http://townsquare.media/site/295/files/2014/04/hudsons.jpg