Van Morrison: your views please

dave q., as usual, nails it. still, i give a thumb's up to astral weeks and moondance, and bits and pieces of all the rest.

and didn't someone on ILX once post a rilly funny story about some (REALLY disgusting) thing that van's (understandably) pissed-off stage musicians did to one of his harmonicas?!?

Van Morrison is a prize curmudgeon by all accounts, which gives me an opportunity to pinch this from the rocking vicar
Van's Daily Dump
Van Morrison insists on his band turning up to rehearsals at bang on 8.30am, although Van himself often doesn't turn up until ten, and then goes straight to the toilet with a copy of Exchange & Mart to have a dump. One day, the band got so cross that they waited until Van was engaged and then, one by one, tip-toed over to Van's Sacred Harmonica Bag, full of harmonicas Van has collected from around the world, picked a specimen, and rubbed it in their anal clefts. Even now, when you see Van on Later, his band seemed particularly delighted when he does a harmonica solo.

-- Billy Dods (butterbubble...), September 4th, 2002.

Maybe.

Astral Weeks = very necessary.

The rest = meh. Ups and downs.

Out of context, that would be a strange sentence.

Nothing I've heard from him since 1974 seems to come close - although I'd be interested to see what other ILMers think of some of his more recent albums (especially Back On Top, Down The Road, What's Wrong With This Picture) since I have recently been entertaining the (probably fanciful) notion that he's about due for a sudden and unexpected return to form.

This message is not for Van haters, but for Van fans. I first got hip to Van when I saw the "Last Waltz." When he came out I thought "who the heck is that little fat guy, he's all flabby and dressed in a brown pantsuit? He looks like a middle-aged lady. On top of that he's doing this ridiculous chorus-line kicking." Then I kept listening and I shut up. His was the most definitive performance in the movie, his and Muddy Waters.

About Van sideman and territory-sharer Georgie Fame, who was dissed above: I saw Georgie once at Ronnie Scott's in London, and he put on one good show. He did one bit where, in a tribute to his former boss, he sang a medley of Moondance and some African song from a movie soundtrack (was it one of those Cornel Wilde things?) that was pretty damn great.

I've never thought of Van Morrison as hippy-anything (or especially earnest, for that matter). Unlike the faux-mysticism of, say, Led Zeppelin, Van's lyrics steer clear of gnomes and m'ladys, are grounded instead in back alleys, snowstorms, trains, Safeway supermarkets, and memory. More importantly, the music is equally grounded: in r&b. His 70's catalogue (Moondance, Tupelo Honey, St Dominick's Preview, Hardnose the Highway, Veedon Fleece, and though it's '69, Astral Weeks belongs in this group too) is at least as strong as Al Green's. After that, for the most part it seems like he started reading a bit too much of his own press: yes, the mysticism did start to grate. I've been listening to him a lot again. He good.

how hold on a moment...

but al green is al green!

anyway style IS substance. dude.

yeah, you would believe that sort of twaddle. Le Roy Neiman has a lot of "style," how do you feel about him? (here comes the lecture) I hope you wear a beret when you type out these missives. And one earring. No, that wouldn't go with the short pants and riding crop.

intelligent discussion may now resume.

I've been totally gaying out on Van lately. Saw the last waltz again and it really hit me how fucking BIZARRE the man is...such strange mannerisms onstage, so "passionate" but yet seems sort of bitter and hateful and totally uncaring about the crowd...

but so anyway yesterday I picked up "It's too late to stop now" a live album with his band, the Caledonia Soul Orchestra...honestly I think it's one of the greatest albums ever recorded...every song is retooled, rearranged...huge band, strings + horns + a core of a whoop-ass RnB band and rhythm secion....Van is all over the fucking place on this....slurring everything into a million fake endings and rave up WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP rhythm section hits...tuuurn on yuuuuur raDIO blooblobleeebledeeedlebloooombabloooobeeeedoodbeee..urrrrrnnnnn letcha lights shaaane....lettttit shine...

the fourth side "Heres Comes the night"---->gloria----->caravan----->cypress avenue is amazing...i think it's about five minutes before cypress is even close to being recognizable....

yeah that last waltz performance is strange, right? he's definitely got a weird mix of wanting to be this classic entertainer type and then also just having a "fuck you" attitude. it works! the jumpsuit, on the other hand ...

there's a beyond-fantastic bootleg from a 1972 live radio session that has some incredible van moments -- a definitive "Friday's Child," a beautiful "into the mystic" and an incredible reading of dylan's "just like a woman." that thing deserves official release, seriously. it's a peak.

as much as i like van, i haven't delved very deeply into his post-mid 70s stuff. but it seems as though there's plenty of worthwhile albums/songs ...

As much as I love "Caravan" from TLW, I love his vocal on "Tura Lura Lura" even more. God I wish there was an outtake of that floating somewhere.

He's complete crap, of course.

Wrong, Alex. The man could do the neatest codas.

If you enjoy listening to walruses gargle with their own filth, then I suppose so.

Oh goodness, well, a gurgling walrus with beautiful strings behind him then.

i thought he was drunk/coked out of his mind in the last waltz?

i like van, but i'm only recently recovering from drastic overexposure some fifteen years ago.

I owe a drink to whoever posted that YouTube clip of him doing "Warm Love" on German TV in '74 onto a different Van thread.

Of all of the songs on my favorite Van Morrison album, I'm undecided as to whether my favorite song is "Ring Worm" or "Want a Danish".

boring old fart, self righteous too.

It's interesting how many of the dismissive responses are based on not knowing his music in the first place. There also seems to be a sense of pride in that. Not sure why. I've worked in places where I've had to listen to Frankie Valli to the point where I've wanted his music vanquished from existence, but unless your uncle tortured you as a small child with a replay of his most obvious hits I've never considered Van to generate such snap judgement hate.

Now, granted, from everything I've read and heard from others much more in tune with the music business, Van looks to be a pretty difficult, cantankerous a-hole, which doesn't even put him in rarified company. Yes, he's been making pretty much the same album for years. If you like that sort of thing, it's not so bad. And he has been at it for decades.

But if you're going to judge the man, at least hear some of his best work. I wouldn't go judging the entire career of the Cure based on "Wish"...

While every Van fan I've met has different personal faves, I'd offer up the obvious: anything by Them, Astral Weeks, St. Dominic's Preview, Veedon Fleece, Wavelength (considered his most "commercial" album for its upbeat nature and slightly "slicker" production), Common One (if you think Van's a snoozer, then this will be your best evidence, but maybe I just like to daydream...), Into the Music, Beautiful Vision, Hymns to the Silence...

His radio hits only tell one very small part of the story. And he really doesn't fall into "hippie" music. He wore some bad hippie clothes back in the day.

For those who do like him, hopefully YouTube still has the video of him and Chet Baker doing Send in the Clowns. I'd only heard it on bootleg and imagined Van really biting into it, the way he phrases things and such...and then I saw this video. AND HE'S READING THE WORDS OFF A PIECE OF PAPER. Ah, the mastery of performance.

I'd submit a link but I'm new here and learning how to operate this formatting stuff. Hopefully, in time.

"Ring Worm" is totally better, for the "yooouuuu've got ring worm" near the end.

Oh, and Van's good. I love St. Dominic's Preview. Also "Snow in San Anselmo" is one of the coolest songs ever.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cxw98-SBhGo

While every Van fan I've met has different personal faves, I'd offer up the obvious: anything by Them, Astral Weeks, St. Dominic's Preview, Veedon Fleece...

all very solid, Astral Weeks being obvious, Veedon Fleece being the hidden grail, and I'd add Tupelo Honey and (god help me) Moondance. It'll never be my favorite, and it's way too exposed, but goddamnit if it's not a good record.

Alex, stop taking the piss and do something useful. We like Van Morrison, ok?

That two disc "Story of Them" set is amazing -- it's pretty much their full output as a band (with Van, but Them without Van is like VU without Lou), and it's very-good-to-legendary from end to end. I don't get tired of it.

i rebought astral weeks a couple days ago (traded it a few years back, then suddenly this week felt the overwhelming urge to hear it again), and what strikes me most about it is how . . . not like its reputation it is, in so many ways. like someone said upthread, for all the talk about van being a hippy-dippy mystic, most of the words are about very realistic scenes and situations.

it reminds me of talk talk's later work in some ways, that same contemplative mood, the way the old persona (the van of "gloria," the mark hollis of "it's my life") occasionally croaks through the new one, the way virtually any sound can take on meaning and depth. "slim slow slider" especially would fit in very well on laughing stock.

i also think the string arrangements are beautiful, almost unbelievably so, and i'm not really one to fawn over stuff like that.

i've got to get that them compilation. "gloria" is one of those overplayed classics that somehow never gets old; there's something so feral and almost unsettling about van's angry bark.

anyone heard blowin' your mind?

Here's the '74 German TV clip that Matos refers to:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=urpnB_5E4ro

Great fuckin' band; these must be the same guys that recorded the It's Too Late to Stop Now album with him. Aewsome!

"gloria" is one of those overplayed classics that somehow never gets old

tru, but "mystic eyes" > "gloria"

I get the impression a lot of fans like Keep Me Singing - a lot them single it out as his real comeback, but something about it felt kind of lifeless to me, like he was sapped of energy. I'll give it another try though.

I love “out in the cold again” from keep me singing

“In between the times where it feels alright
To the dead of the cold black night”

i once saw van walk off stage in the middle of a song, not to return, after he had done his contractual 45 minutes. he didn't punch anyone afaik but the bandmembers he left vamping looked mighty perplexed. luckily rockpile had done a killer opening set so i didn't feel too ripped off.

Re: the conduit reading of Van. Okay I guess but I just want to have this mystique applied consistently.

Musicians like him don't have a monopoly on soulfulness / spirituality / mysticism.

Like, if Van Morrison gets to be a "conduit," then so does Paula Abdul or Garth Brooks or Morris Day or Johannes Brahms or Erykah Badu or whomsoever.

He's always been a fairly disagreeable little troll and it's a minor miracle that the universe decided to channel that magic through him. I don't really feel like his music has anything to do with him or even belongs to him

Sums up my feelings as well. It’s even more remarkable that he has recorded some of the most joyous music around.

I've been having a bit of a problem with Van lately myself. I likely will get over it, but it's been harder than I realized.

Really? Maybe because of the brass.

That, and the vocal style is very Morrisonesque.

Okay, I can see that, in the shouts growled chorus.

Elvis is like five times as smart as Van, not that it does him any good

finally getting around to some 80s van and damn how the fuck was i even living before i heard "beautiful vision"????

yuuuup

I taped a King Biscuit concert of his, about 1991, off the radio. Unfortunately my boombox was wonky and recorded at the wrong speed. Consequently that was the only machine on which I could play that recording.

Van was, in my view, at the height of his mid-career powers, and he had an an excellent backing band. Basically the "Wavelength" album, plus the way he was performing his earlier material in exactly that moment.

Exquisite. Before that, he was underbaked. After that, too much. It was exactly right.

gotta love Vanlose Stairway

90s Van rules ok too, I have a particular weak spot for The Healing Game

the wind in the willows…AND THE PIPER AT THE GATES OF DAWN

Van's pandemic turn has made it much harder for me to enjoy his work.

As someone suggested in another thread, I kind of pretend he's been dead since 2019 and indulge in the work of a man who (while still a colossal dick) hasn't gone all-in into vile conspiracy theories.

Similar to Eric Clapton (dead since the end of 1974) and I guess Kanye West (dead since the end of 2010) when I'm ready to listen to him again.

Yeah bird I tuned Van out a long time ago. Pretending he died is perhaps the best way to enjoy his early work while ignoring his subsequent rancid dickishness.

I put Van Morrison into a Chinese translator and I feel like I'm going insane pic.twitter.com/0TuPUQKEb8

— John Frankensteiner (@JFrankensteiner) November 24, 2023

New episode of the 500 Songs podcast is on Van

https://500songs.com/podcast/episode-170-astral-weeks-by-van-morrison/

ooh interesting!

that chinese translation is wild

Underappreciated track from otherwise nothing-special record, imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PghOffQ-BrI