Jungle Rhythms

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helicopter tune is a...tune

post, Thursday, 27 October 2011 04:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

People can talk about what they like in this thread of course, but I started it to talk about tunes with drums that really sing. Like this amazing early Source Direct tune "Fabric of Space", which really captures that moment in the trajectory from atmospheric jungle into, I dunno, post-techstep I guess, the same trajectory all the best and hardest Goldie tunes ever were on. The snares on this are so tactile and impacting!

Tim F, Thursday, 27 October 2011 12:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

ay ay ay

jed_, Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

since i've been "rinsing" it lately, chaps. cheerio.

jed_, Thursday, 27 October 2011 19:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

great thread, tim.

early source direct is great. 'snake style', 'bliss' and 'secret liasons' (not so early but still one of my top 5 jungle tunes). but i'm more of a mood nerd (if such thing exists) when it comes to jungle.

beat wise, always loved this dj crystl tune :

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B6ZX5-TkOxA"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

rusty_allen, Thursday, 27 October 2011 22:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha tim i was basically trying to coax lex into paying more attention to jungle by spoonful-of-sugar'ing it via tunes with elements i know he loves already.

strongo hulkington's ghost dad, Thursday, 27 October 2011 22:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm not doing very well with these selections i'm afraid (three in) (didn't get to the end of any of them), i'd previously thought i just didn't know enough about d&b but i think i just don't like it :/

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 09:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

i don't like the way the beats...sound? i'm not putting it very well but they don't have any OOMPH to them

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 09:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

that "wishing on a star" track is pretty good though!

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 09:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

So being a 'sonix nerd' means rating Nightslugs, but disliking the entire genre of d&b and jungle (bar 'Wishing on a Star)? Seems weird. I feel bad for you :(

MikoMcha, Friday, 28 October 2011 09:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

how on earth are you meant to dance to jungle? it's like idm to me tbh

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 09:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

You either follow the snares high-road martial arts-style or go for skanking to the slow-down dubby basslines. Usually, a bit of both. Also, drugs.

MikoMcha, Friday, 28 October 2011 09:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

This would be my contribution, not sure if it sings enough for Tim though:

MikoMcha, Friday, 28 October 2011 10:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

With jungle you dance half-speed to the bass (the opposite of how I dance to dubstep, which is double-speed to the bass).

Are you more of a vocals rather than beats man Lex?

How about this:

Chewshabadoo, Friday, 28 October 2011 10:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Guys I think you're on a hiding to nothing here (although it does genuinely surprise me that Lex isn't that interested in rhythm as a focal point of music in its own right).

Matt DC, Friday, 28 October 2011 10:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

the dillinja tune was okay, i like the moodiness of it

i like beats, i just need...steady beats when it comes to dance music

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 11:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

That's fair enough I suppose.

Matt DC, Friday, 28 October 2011 11:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is the only d&b tune i've genuinely loved

no lay's voice isn't just decoration, and the beats work so well with it

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 11:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

and there are so many awesome contrasting synth elements

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 11:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

Haha that's total "empire state of mind" logic right there.

Tim F, Friday, 28 October 2011 11:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

in what way? no one's ever said "empire state of mind" is a good version of any genre (except maybe pop)

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 12:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Lots of people think "empire state of mind" is a good rap tune because of Alicia Keys.

Tim F, Friday, 28 October 2011 14:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

well that's understandable? she is the only thing about it that miiiight push it into worthwhile territory

lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 14:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've always thought I could get into jungle, but the more I listen to it, the less convinced I am of that. I still suspect that if I had given it more of a chance back in the 90s, before I started digging into Arabic and Latin music, it might have clicked for me. Kind of weird how it's like a dance music genre made out of jazzy drum solos. I like rhythmic complexity, but not into it.

On the Heat Release of Burning Karaoke Music Compartments (_Rudipherous_), Friday, 28 October 2011 16:11 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's not that I hate it either. I don't mind leaving it on, but it's as if it adds nothing by being on.

On the Heat Release of Burning Karaoke Music Compartments (_Rudipherous_), Friday, 28 October 2011 16:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

So glad that this thread exists. Tim have you heard/do you have the following tape? DJ Rap with Remadee and Det on Kool FM, December 93: http://www.sendspace.com/file/luj4gk
One of my all-time favourite pirate tapes, in any genre. This prob sound weird by whenever I listen to it I always think 'Hey I bet Tim & the ILX Funky dudes would love this sort of thing'.

Mr Andy M, Friday, 28 October 2011 16:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

kinda sad this thread ceased to exist. been working on a jungle article for a local website lately, and your insights (tim) are A+. not to say the other blurbs weren't worth it, obv (it would be great to see this grow) but...he started it.

rusty_allen, Friday, 6 April 2012 23:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Thanks rusty.

I think if I ever were to write a book it would be some big unified theory thing about rhythm (qua rhythm) in dance music.

With a readership of about 5.

Tim F, Saturday, 7 April 2012 01:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

BTW I hadn't noticed that THE FINEST JUNGLE TUNE EVER* is now on youtube:

* or top 5 at any rate.

I was going to say "it saddens me that someone like lex couldn't get with this", but that's not quite it... More like: when I think of how much joy the drums on this give me, it makes me think that not being into jungle rhythms in and of themselves would be like not having one of the five senses, the whole world would seem a bit of a lesser experience.

But srsly what this tune does with snares is like one "holy fuck" after another, a ridiculous thunderstorm of beats.

It's actually what I imagined what Black Secret Technology would sound like based on the descriptions before I heard it.

Tim F, Saturday, 7 April 2012 01:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

Another totally amazing, rhythmically lifechanging tune from the same comp, rendering drill & bass redundant well before the fact:

Tim F, Saturday, 7 April 2012 01:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

Yay it's back.
Whenever I get comments from people IRL along the lines of 'quite like jungle but I just don't find it very danceable' (which is an understandable attitude to it in some ways, I'm not slagging lex or anyone else for holding it) this is always one of the tunes I start them off with:

Mr Andy M, Saturday, 7 April 2012 12:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

Also bit WOW @ the Radical Sound and Dub Technicians tunes. Any time I think I've heard it all with jungle things like these come along and I realize I've still got so far to go (which is a good thing obv).

Mr Andy M, Saturday, 7 April 2012 12:35 (2 years ago) Permalink

*big WOW

Mr Andy M, Saturday, 7 April 2012 12:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

that "what is love" mix's directly from Jungle Soundclash Volume 1

Strictly hardcore!

moullet, Saturday, 7 April 2012 20:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is one of my favorites, i don't think it sounded quite as generic as it sounds now in 1994 BUT what happens at about 3:15 is still amazing to me (and even though the first part is kinda undistinguished i like the hook enough)

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 20:46 (2 years ago) Permalink

if you compare it though to something like remarc though bizzy b's drum edits are way more brutal and they snarl like detuned synth almost, in remarc there's quite a lot of slightly dated isolated percussion hits (sorry metalheadz)

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 20:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 21:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

at the beginning its like the speakers are firing missiles at you

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 21:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

does what it says on the tin, but ...

(the melody slips out and back) "under from a bass drum"? "thunder from a bass drum"? "wonder from a bass drum"?

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 21:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^ kinda like autechre until the diva shows up ... and then its like autechre again for a split second and then it just turns into seasick drum rolls

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 21:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

fukin tune! wikid upload --

SKYTZOO

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 21:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

for a second you think the diva's coming back in but then its just the sound of brain cells dying

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 21:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

actually maybe that's why some people hate jungle, it's too much like IDM

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 21:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

on one hand i had to log in to flag the most-liked comment on youtube ("dj rape lol")

on the other hand

The fanboys getting very hot under the collar

― mmmm

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 22:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

while we're getting anachronistic, i believe i detect some early todd terry infuence sneak in around 2:22, gets especially pronounced about 20 seconds later

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 22:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

i love how the toms and stuff are folded into the break, otherwise its not that special except it has the sexiest breakdown ever, somehow turns amens into trance snare rolls and it doesn't suck

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 22:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

and here's the "dj rap get raw remix"

early techstep w/o the dred bass

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 22:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

euphoria + techstep = cyberdelic?

unfortunately she kind of only had a talent for the breakdowns

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 22:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

she does do a good trick at the end of some bars though where the drums mimic little tiny scratches and rewinds

the late great, Saturday, 7 April 2012 22:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

Belated uuuuhhhh at What is Love. Restraint, nonrestraint.

Jedmond, Saturday, 7 April 2012 22:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have a piece coming out in a french journal in a few months about funky's approach to rhythm and it's on exactly this point, the way in which funky seemed to slide between the rhythmically familiar and the unfamiliar, managing to be rhythmically comforting and confounding at the same time. This isn't a new trick in dance music but I tend to think funky's golden age took it an extreme (to the extent one can describe such a state of inbetweenness as "extreme").

Tim F, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 05:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

rhythmically comforting and confounding at the same time.

spot on. one of those central tensions.

hologram ned raggett (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 05:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

i don't think i ever heard funky as rhythmically confounding - insofar as i noticed the rhythms they provided a very comforting sweet spot

liberté, égalité, beyoncé (lex pretend), Wednesday, 25 April 2012 09:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

Lex it's fair to say that little if any of the funky you seemed to like most could be described as rhythmically confounding, in particular stuff like "In The Air" and "Falling Again" are basically straight vocal house.

Tim F, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 09:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have a piece coming out in a french journal in a few months about funky's approach to rhythm

!!

etc, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 09:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

it'll be in french though.

Rev, did you ever hear Dubplate Wonder's Wonderland 09 set? It's all his own productions and it is basically all about that tension, 100%.

Tim F, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 11:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

Pretty much cosign what Rev & Tim are saying about funky.

Having another boring day where I'm trying to get myself writing, so thought I'd throw in some more thoughts on the whole is jungle danceable/how do you dance to jungle thing -
I guess there were aspects of it that I initially had problems with as a dance, but for me it wasn’t so much the full-on Amen rinse-out tunes that I had problems with – yeah it could be difficult, at times nearly impossible to follow every single beat on them but I could at least generally spasm about to them in the same way that I used to do with like Bad Brains or F-Minus or whatever. I guess in that respect it’s helpful that the Amen break has an inherent degree of energy and forward-motion in it that will come through no matter what way it’s chopped and reordered.

The kind of tunes I had more trouble with were the very strongly reggae-influenced tunes that mostly came out in 94 at the peak of jungle’s popularity. Trying to think of good examples here – Dem A Gwarn Like Dem Know Badness by Tek 9 would be one, or even Idiot Sound by New Blood. Both great tunes of course, and there were loads of others in that style that I loved and straight away wanted to dance to, i.e. I found the rhythmically compelling but wasn’t quite sure how to move my body to them.

I think part of this came from how the producers folded the breakbeats down into that skanking reggae groove – it would create an effect where the beat would seem to drop out at unexpected places, or else where the overall beat pattern of the tune would feel lop-sided or lurching until you got used to it. I think I’ve pretty much got there with dancing to these tunes – of course, like with almost all dance music I’m never sure that I’m dancing the right way to it. I’ve danced to jungle in clubs but not really for full sets and obv not with og jungle ravers so it’s hard to measure my moves against anything. But I can move to it without really thinking about it now which I think is a big part of it, like I’m not often standing around and hesitating.

Mr Andy M, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 12:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

As a dancer the first kind of jungle tunes that did hook me were along the lines of the M-Beat one I posted upthread, i.e. ones with a beat pattern that was immediately captivating but also concise and not too difficult to follow. Also more steady-rollin’ kind of tunes like The Burial, Helicopter Tune, Sovereign Melody etc. Those were the ones I found myself intuitively making moves to while listening.

Mr Andy M, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Lol 'as a dancer' sounds so pompous, 'from a dancing pov' is maybe a better way to put it.

Mr Andy M, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'm with the lex on this thread. man, its hard for me to think of too many genres or sub-genres i never want to hear. but this would be one of them. and i try too. i just played portions of every youtube on this thread.

scott seward, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 13:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

Hey Andy - I used to post a bit on ILC, but I mainly lurk waiting for that rare beast - a good thread about jungle.

RE: Flex. He's a bit patchy fer sure , but I'll forgive him anything because of this:

And this sublime pulsating bass hot pants 4/4 kick combo:

droid, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have a piece coming out in a french journal in a few months about funky's approach to rhythm

#rare #based

J0rdan S., Wednesday, 25 April 2012 16:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

Hey Andy - I used to post a bit on ILC, but I mainly lurk waiting for that rare beast - a good thread about jungle.
Haha I feel you on this - don't post here all that much but when I first saw this thread my eyes totally lit up. Trying to get a bit more involved with things here at the moment though.
Had forgotten about Ya Buzzin Again actually, it's a good 'un yeah.
Have listened to that Steve Gurley FX In Dub Mix tune you posted 10+ times in the last few days btw, so good.

Mr Andy M, Wednesday, 25 April 2012 17:50 (1 year ago) Permalink


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