overseas manufacturing in developing countries

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or what you said upthread, dayo, i.e. peak oil will save us

i.e. mommy will take the candy away

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 10:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

30 years ago you could ship a 40-foot container across the pacific for $3000

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 10:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

hmm can i say 'diametric' like that? To the grammar fiends thread

at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Friday, 7 October 2011 10:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

that report says that even in 2000 you could get a 40-foot container all the way across the pacific and up to columbus OH for $3000.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 10:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

would be an interesting study imo- what effect, if any, has the ability to kick a ball in the street had on the cost of transoceanic goods transportation ?

at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Friday, 7 October 2011 10:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

oh sorry i didn't realize we were doing this

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 10:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

brb

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 10:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

(think "diametrical" would be better in that context, not sure why)

mark s, Friday, 7 October 2011 10:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

'diametrically opposed' yeah.

at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Friday, 7 October 2011 10:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

I find this photo really touching - behind every strong iphone stands an even stronger chinese worker working 12 hours a day

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 10:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

Ford, GE and Otis Elevator are among companies that have all just recently announced moves of labor back to the US.

Trying to find good articles that are not WSJ-paywalled.

Supposedly some of it is rising labor costs in China (I had a feeling eventually this would happen) and rising transportation/warehousing costs, but there's some speculation it's partly an image thing, especially with a company like Ford.

I guess an assume-a-can-opener economist would argue that this is what's supposed to happen -- the same free market that drives manufacturing overseas should also eventually drive the cost of manufacturing in other countries up and we should move toward some kind of equilibrium. In reality I find it hard to believe that things work that way for a number of reasons.

Disraeli Geirs (Hurting 2), Friday, 7 October 2011 12:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well yeah, partly because rising standards of living in China usually just mean pushing things out to even poorer parts of the world.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 12:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

If fuel goes up, wages gotta go down

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 12:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

assume-a-canopener would then posit that the increased competition for labour would eventually bring up wages, standards in those economies also, tho

at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Friday, 7 October 2011 12:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

A rising tide lifts all container ships!

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 12:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

ha!

at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Friday, 7 October 2011 13:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

Xpost - and yes I am skipping a zillion posts to make a point that has probably already been made loads of times upthread.

yes, it's incredibly exploitative of the workers who under any reasonable standard of fairness shouldn't have to work in what are, by all accounts, pretty horrific conditions.

Horrific conditions are not intirinsic to overseas manufacture. The problem is surely the horrific conditions, not the overseas manufacture. It is probably quite economically advantageous to have overseas manufacturing taking place in reasonable enough conditions, given the pay differentials between po' countries and the first world.

however, the harsh economic and social realities of the country they were born into make it so that these jobs are often their only alternative to an even harsher existence.

this is also a valid point - except in those countries that still have slavery and serfdom, people are free to decide whether working for peanuts in a maquiladora is a better or worse deal than loafing around as a landles agricultural labourer (or whatever); without Foxconn they do not even have that choice.

Campaigns drawning attention to factory conditions that we would consider unacceptable are useful as way of forcing some improvement in those conditions.

The New Dirty Vicar, Friday, 7 October 2011 13:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well yeah, partly because rising standards of living in China usually just mean pushing things out to even poorer parts of the world.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, October 7, 2011 8:34 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

Keep in mind there are vast regions of China where these industries have not even happened yet, so it may just mean pushing things to a different, poorer region of China. But that means more distance from those new manufacturing regions to the port and there's those fuel costs again...

Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 October 2011 15:49 (3 years ago) Permalink

Right..

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 15:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

I keep forgetting that maritime transport is probably as important as it's ever been in the history of the world. I guess it just seems like boats belong to the past, or something.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 15:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

Step off about my boats, Tracer Hand, if that's even your real name.

WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

^will read that!

Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

boats are kind of a thing iirc

at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

Also. Boats crucially important = PIRATES super important.

Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

i've seen them

at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

haven't been good in years

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

I have that book! Did not finish. Should give it another go.

WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

Container ships being unloaded every day practically across the street from my office, at the Port of Cleveland.

You people are supposed to be some kind of music culture intelligentsi (Phil D.), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

container ships use the lowest grade diesel fuel too, right? huge polluters

read that maersk was building a few more ships that are gonna break the world record for biggest container ships

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

once a big boat dumped a bunch of shipping containers off the coast of rhode island in a huge storm and for months afterwards mocassins and little teddy bears would come ashore shopping wet and salty

max, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

Container ports/yards FASCINATE me. I could sit and watch Elizabeth, NJ for hours.

WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

http://www.porttechnology.org/news/maersk_to_build_10_of_the_worlds_largest_ever_container_ships

current list of world's biggest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_container_ships

so the new ones are gonna have 30% more capacity than the current ones. O_o

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

laurel if you ever visit hong kong, go here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwai_Tsing_Container_Terminals

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

i love those humongo cranes

max, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

Wire season two IMO

Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

there's a bus that runs on a highway parallel to the container yard in HK - you feel like it just goes on for miles

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

I can't go to HK/Shenzhen/China due to my chronic health issues, which sucks because my job would happily send me there in a hot minute and I would be psyched to go.

Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

xp My books go there!!!!!

Do I even have to tell you how much I loved Season 2 of The Wire?

WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

I mean I don't, right?

WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

Rangy tough-guy dockworkers AND shipping container tracking software? Clear Laurel-bait.

WE DO NOT HAVE "SECRET" "MEETINGS." I DO NOT HAVE A SECOND (Laurel), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

grew up around ports and trawlers, not the worst place for bumming around as a 12 yr old

at-zing-two-boards (darraghmac), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

there's a really good BBC 4 doc about container ships, which might be, uh obtainable somehow, called "The Box That Changed Britain" ... talks a lot about the old culture of the docks and how that basically vanished overnight, how nobody besides port computers have any idea what's in any of the containers, how shipping costs have made it more cost-effective to farm, say, prawns in the UK, ship them to thailand for processing, then ship them back for sale to the UK public

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

mother of god!

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

That graphic is amaaazing

Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

"an empire state building's worth of party poppers gets shipped from shanghai to LA every 2 weeks"

dayo, Friday, 7 October 2011 16:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

We will try to explain everything about Knock Nevis, or better known as Jahre Viking or Seawise Giant.

Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

Knock Nevis is crazy - on its Wikipedia page it says that it was actually sunk by the Iraqi air force in the Straits of Hormuz, raised from the bottom and repaired, bish bosh!

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 7 October 2011 16:39 (3 years ago) Permalink


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