2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

When they look back on it, people will surely see this election as one of the larger missed opportunities in the nation's history for scrutiny and shake-up of our economic and imperial arrangements

^^ "people" will do nothing of the sort, are you kidding?

How easy it should have been for a politician as eloquent and intelligent as Obama to create an irresistible popular constituency challenging business as usual

"everything would be fixed overnight if someone would just say something!!" = left delusion #1. "how easy" haha if only

cockburn otmfm

"if someone would just say something!!" /= create an irresistible popular constituency challenging business as usual

"hey, barack, you know what i think we should do? ok: let's create an create an irresistible popular constituency challenging business as usual!"

"my god, dave, that's it!"

We all know how easy that is!

Cockburn 2012

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/features/budget_hero/

he says "ideological policies" later on, fwiw

That's a little better, though I'd prefer "right-wing economic policies".

Um...I think what Cockburn is saying (and I'm not sure how much of the point-missing is sarcastic hilarity...or how much of the sarcastic hilarity is point-missing) is that, if only someone that a large chunk of the left is putting their hopes in -- you know, like Obama -- would actually verbalize what the left is fighting for when they're not throwing their lot in with a corporate-sponsored candidate, it might give them the confidence to fight for something beyond voting for Kang or Kodos.

I'd like to see someone on the left successfully verbalize what it is they're fighting for first.

dan otm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/wall-street-delivers_b_126516.html

just look at the unified front they present at anti-war protests lolz

x-post

I mean, this is part of the problem, right? The right has successfully laid claim to divisive soundbite positions that allow them to steer people into supporting actions that are in direct opposition to their stated goals. How is the left combating this?

By creating their own ideologically opaque positions?

"people" will do nothing of the sort, are you kidding?

He obv did not mean robotic, blinkered mainstream Democrats like goole.

Shakey & Dan, you gotta be fuckin' kidding me. I think you know what the part of "left" that would even bother voting for a Democrat stands for. Something like this:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080818/open_letter

that's a good letter.

you have such abiding faith in the american people all of a sudden, morbs

I notice that Cockburn's name is not signed at the bottom.

x-post

xp: no, but I wish I did.

well, I'm sure he believes as I do that O has no need for our input.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/09/16/us/16mccain2-337.jpg

cockburn is saying if obama behaved as a more strident and outspoken leftist about war, imperialism, and class, not only would this be in itself a good thing, but it would make the election a cake walk. i can't believe cockburn actually thinks that's true.

No, he's saying if Obama behaved like a LIBERAL!!! Which he hasn't been, goddammmit, unless you get your c.w. from Giuliani.

§ Withdrawal from Iraq on a fixed timetable.

He still supports this.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/iraq/

§ A response to the current economic crisis that reduces the gap between the rich and the rest of us through a more progressive financial and welfare system; public investment to create jobs and repair the country's collapsing infrastructure; fair trade policies; restoration of the freedom to organize unions; and meaningful government enforcement of labor laws and regulation of industry.

I'd like to know precisely what is meant by "a more progressive financial and welfare system". Regardless, his position includes reinvestment to create jobs, fighting for fair trade and unionization, and enforcing government regulations:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/poverty/

§ Universal healthcare.

He has put a plan out there for this that appears more comprehensive than McCain's but will cost the country a ton more money, according to critiques.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

§ An environmental policy that transforms the economy by shifting billions of dollars from the consumption of fossil fuels to alternative energy sources, creating millions of green jobs.

He has still committed to doing this.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy

§ An end to the regime of torture, abuse of civil liberties and unchecked executive power that has flourished in the Bush era.

Nothing in his literature specifically addresses torture and his civil rights rhetoric is squarely aimed at domestic issues. He is committed to bringing more transparency to the use of executive power, however. Based on these links, this is an area where he needs to take a firmer stance to address this issue.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ethics/
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/civilrights/

§ A commitment to the rights of women, including the right to choose abortion and improved access to abortion and reproductive health services.

He has still committed to doing this.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/womenissues

§ A commitment to improving conditions in urban communities and ending racial inequality, including disparities in education through reform of the No Child Left Behind Act and other measures.

He has still committed to doing this.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/civilrights/

§ An immigration system that treats humanely those attempting to enter the country and provides a path to citizenship for those already here.

His policy here sucks.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/

§ Reform of the drug laws that incarcerate hundreds of thousands who need help, not jail.

His position here also sucks.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/civilrights/#drug-courts

§ Reform of the political process that reduces the influence of money and corporate lobbyists and amplifies the voices of ordinary people.

He has committed to doing this.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ethics/

woah, why is my formatting wacky?

I keep imagining you loling every time you pasted a link.

ha

Regardless, while conceding that Obama is not "OMG SUPERLIBERAL" the way that the Republicans have painted him, he is more liberal than actual OMG SUPERLIBERAL folks like to give him credit for being.

I don't disagree w/ your summary, DP. Then there's the matter of sounding like he's fixing to exchange the war in Iraq (if he manages to) for the one in Afghanistan...

How often he emphasizes in stump speeches and TV time what he's "committed to" is significant. And the largely unspoken torture / international law stuff is disturbing.

How often he emphasizes in stump speeches and TV time what he's "committed to" is significant. And the largely unspoken torture / international law stuff is disturbing.

This is part of why I think he needs to stop talking about McCain/Palin. I think he does speak about all of this stuff but MSM is going for the soundbites about "lol McCain is old and out of touch"/"lol everything about Palin", so they get lost in the shuffle.

Also, I think he's mistakenly thinking that people are willing to read about a candidate's positions; my wife, who supported Hillary, did so because Hillary talked specifics about her plans in the debates while Obama referred people to his website, ergo in her mind Obama was all image, no substance and didn't have any idea of what he was doing.

Morbs I'm curious what you suggest we do in Afghanistan. Immediate withdrawal, as I suppose you'd suggest in Iraq?

I'm worried about Afghanistan, too, but I do see the pursuit of Bin Laden as a more defensible reason for going into a country than anything that was concocted to go into Iraq (and, while it wouldn't have been a picnic, I can't help but feel that part of the reason Afghanistan has also become a quagmire is because we shifted focus off of it).

this is my phone

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/images/2008/09/16/mccain_phone_2.jpg

http://thepalintruthsquad.com/PTSbanner.jpg

dan perry, what is yr objection to his position on the drug war? Being any more progressive than that is pretty much politically unfeasible if u want to be elected and not be dukakis'd. most of the country still thinks drugs are bad mmkay

Maybe becoming as humane as the UK, even?

HOOS, you do know that the current "Afghan democracy" that we built is totally corrupted by the opium trade? Even the NY Times found out.

I don't play the "what wd you do" jazz; I haven't been elected to anything. "All deliberate speed" withdrawal sounds like a worthy goal, but let's face it, not-gonna-happen. (As Madame Albright asked, "What's the point of having this superb military if we can't use it?") I do think the War on Terror is a crock, and will continue no matter what happens in November.

everytime i read an o.nate post about what barack's doing wrong i get strong eeyore vibes and i have to do a 538.com-style weighting adjustment to figure out how bad things actually look at the moment.

ok i hope this hasnt been posted elsewhere but for the maximum number of readers im posting it here
http://www.linktv.org/embed/change_placeholder_rnc/change_placeholder_rnc20080910

then

GOP delegate's hotel tryst goes bad when he wakes up with $120,000 missing

He met her in the bar of the swank hotel and invited her to his room. Once there, the woman fixed the drinks and told him to get undressed.
And that, the delegate to the Republican National Convention told police, was the last thing he remembered.

When he awoke, the woman was gone, as was more than $120,000 in money, jewelry and other belongings.
The thief's take stunned cops.
"It's very, very, very rare," Minneapolis Police Sgt. William Palmer said. "I can think of a couple of burglaries where we had that much stolen, but it's the first time I've heard of this kind of deal."
In a statement released today, Gabriel Nathan Schwartz, 29, of Denver, put the figure at much less.
"It's embarrassing to admit that I was a target of a crime. I was drugged and had about $50,000 of personal items stolen, not the inflated number that the media is reporting from an inaccurate police report," he said.

"As a single man, I was flattered by the attention of a beautiful woman who introduced herself to me. I used poor judgment."
Contacted by the Denver Post Monday, Schwartz declined to speak on the record. In the statement released today, Schwartz said he would decline further interview requests.
The haul included a $30,000 watch, a $20,000 ring, a necklace valued at $5,000, earrings priced at $4,000 and a Prada belt valued at $1,000, police said.
Schwartz is a single attorney and a fixture in Colorado Republican politics. He was one of the state's delegates to the convention this month in St. Paul.
Reached by phone at his law office Monday, Schwartz said that because the case still was under investigation, "I think at this point, I don't want to make a comment on it."

make sure to watch the video first, it makes the article more lmao

it's in the RNC thread

Being any more progressive than that is pretty much politically unfeasible

deej, this kind of defensive Republican Lite crap has made the Dems the losers they are.

dr morbius you sound SOFT ON CRIME

im not saying we should do nothing, im saying some things require a more delicate touch, esp during election season

drug war is fucked no question but that's not an issue you can run and win on in 2008. that's just reality.

I guess we've reached our quarterly pragmatics vs ideologues pseudo-debate.

xp: that's what they said about integration before 1964.

(all cavils about Obama's FISA vote and chicken hawk belligerence still apply; and if he hasn't said much about torture and int'l law, I expect that a smart lad like him wants to "keep his options open" as commander in chief.

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/images/thecandidate3.jpg

dan perry, what is yr objection to his position on the drug war?

I feel like he's replacing one type of prison with another. Without drastically revamping and upping the staffing levels of the programs he wants to funnel drug convictions into, you're basically playing a shell game with the existing situation.

Basically, his position isn't baked enough. I would have less of a problem with it if he also explicitly included funding for treatment programs even though I think using the courts to force people to get help they may or may not need is a waste of money.

"What do we do now?"

(emph changed from McKay to Obama)

Maybe in three or four generations Americans will realize the folly of the drug war, as they did with homosexuals = deviants and perverts.