Swans: Classic or Dud?

I didn't go to the show last year because I was too cheap. I liked the opening tune too. When Gira said they were going to play two more songs I was thinking we would be there til 3am, but it was only ("only")1am or so. Lots of people left before the encore when Gira put on the hat.

ATP schedule conflict of Swans vs Ultramagnetic MCs and I am totally torn.

x-post
hahah, I had the same thought. I was expecting two more half-hour jams.

what surprised me most about last night's show was how much the crowd seemed to enjoy the band. I got the feeling that their performance was meant to be divisive, in the sense that they were trying to weed out a demographic of the audience (similar to how Michael disliked the metalheads they were attracting during the mid-80s). but the crowd dug it!

hey La Lechera -- I missed Sir Richard Bishop too. Really pissed off about that, actually, and it's not because I was farting around or anything. I checked the Bottom Lounge website earlier in the day, and they had something called "Daniel Knox" listed as the opening band. So I figured that clown goes on for a half-hour, and SRB prolly takes the stage somewhere around 9:45. called the venue at about 9:30 as I was about to depart (trying to decide whether to take a cab or not) and they said SRB actually started at 9:20. So annoying. What, this Daniel Knox played for 10 minutes?

Anyway, great Swans show ... loved the free-flowing improvisatory feel of the whole thing. First song was a 25 minute "No Words/No Thoughts", right? Complete with 15 minute tubular bell intro from Thor, haha. That was amazing. I guess I have more of an appetite for that stuff than Ivan. I thought the whole show was great, longer jams the better!

but yeah, 2 1/2 hour show, sheesh. nowhere near that long when I saw them back in February

oh yeah, and OTM about all the sweat onstage. Bottom Lounge always feels like a sauna, another reason I dislike that place.

You are so OTM about that Daniel Knox business -- what a crock. Part of the reason I went was to see Sir Richard and I totally missed his set? Like, completely? That's messed up.
On the other hand, Thor's intro (and his work generally) was AMAZING and I like super long jams too, that was not really a problem for me (though I was apprehensive when I heard "two more songs", I admit -- they were worth it!). The whole percussion team was part of what made the show so bone-rattling and awesome. By the time I realized what the first song was, I felt like I had already been through the ringer (not in a bad way). I was standing about four people deep on the right hand side of the stage. I would have said hi if I had seen you!

Seeing them tonight (this'll be #11 but the first time since they've debuted new material) with Pelican, Rick Bishop, Horseback, and Secret Chiefs III. Yep, at a festival. Luckily I at least like all of those bands.

Saw this bill in minneapolis on wed, bishop was amazing

re: the heat
I wouldn't be surprised if Gira asked the venue to kill the AC again. those open doors during the encore were fabulous.

I was perfectly comfortable fwiw. Heat didn't bother me in the slightest, but I'm always cold. Going to a show like that and shivering would have sucked.

The swans was an incredible thing. Very glad I went but there were times I was kinda bored

La Lech -- sorry I missed you! i should have dropped you a note to say I was going, would've been nice to say hi (although I got out of there fast given it was 1 AM!)

those that *did* see Bishop, what kind of set did he do? was it the surf-arabic stuff, a la The Freak of Araby? if so, I'll feel better about it, since I saw him tour that

Solo gibson hollow body, clean tone, guitar, some more drone some leaning towards fahey.....so gorgeous. Also did a strange and hilarious absurdist comedy spoken word piece about having sex with his girlfriend wearing a kennedy mask while she was wearing a marilyn monroe mask

o yah that's a Sun City Girls thing from Dante's Disneyland Inferno, love it. they were doing that on the Brothers Unconnected tour too.

(sorry for derail)

devastatingly awesome performance tonight. new stuff is unbelievable.

bishop played electric and smoked as always. killer.

also, I heart secret chiefs

new band is so goddamn locked into the whole thing -- interesting to watch Gira act as 'conductor. anyway, so much fun

OPTIONS TO BUY LIVE 2XCD AND TO HELP SUPPORT NEW SWANS STUDIO ALBUM TITLED “THE SEER” IN PROGRESS:
1. buy hand made web only 2x live swans cd with original signed and numbered woodblock print sleeve made from drawing by m.gira - $30
2. as above AND RECEIVE 2xcd deluxe digi-pack signed version of Swans The Seer immediately upon release: $45
3. as in option 1 AND RECEIVE 2xcd deluxe digi-pack signed version of Swans The Seer, website/tour exclusive package that includes live swans dvd from 2010/11 tours - $55
4. OPTION 3 AND RECEIVE “executive producer” credit in upcoming swans studio album - $100
5. OPTION 3, AND 4 PLUS an original unique drawing by m.gira dedicated to customer (see example below) - $150
6. OPTION 3, AND 4, 5 PLUS be on guest list and meet band for one show on upcoming swans tour(s) 2012/13 - $175
7. OPTION 3, AND 4, 5, 6, plus, AND YES THIS IS REAL m.gira will record a simple, short, original song, acoustic guitar and voice, with customers’ name in the song, praising the customer, and send customer an mp3 of the song - $500
8. OPTION 3, AND 4, 5, 6, 7 and contribute an additional $100 or more over option 7, and receive undying gratitude, and a secret gift.

YOUR PURCHASE OF ANY OF THE ABOVE OPTIONS CONTRIBUTES DIRECTLY TOWARDS THE CONSIDERABLE (AND EVER EXPANDING) RECORDING COST OF THE NEW SWANS STUDIO ALBUM, THE SEER, IN PROGRESS)

wut?!

I'm happy to see Uncle Mike is no longer offering fingers as rewards.

I'm totally doing #3.

me too
if only the site was up :-/

Had to try for more than an hour, but I finally did it. Option 3 it is.

Would have loved to do option 3 but option 1 it is for me. And finally happily purchased too, that took...2 hours?

I remember when I first heard Children of God and I thought it was creepy and I guess 'over the top' but listening right now I only hear the beautiful.

I liked it at the time because I liked "goth" music....but it has mellowed with age.
I am quite enjoying Children of God / World of Skin right now!

I've only gotten into Filth/Cop/Young God but man, do they really put me in a bad place. I wish I could see my own face when I'm listening to them.

The early stuff sounds so tame by today's standards.

not sure what standards (bands?) you're referring to there, but whatever they might be, it's a dead cert they owe a debt to Swans.

I mean Slipknot are a million times louder and millions of kids listen to them.

yeah but Slipknot doesn't have Michael Gira so it doesn't really affect me like that

they strike me as a spectacularly obvious cabaret act these days what with gira's preacher costume / guilt shame redemption damnation schtick. sandra bernhard does flannery o'connor.
the records sound good but they feel insubstantial.
they're touring rock band on the circuit - you can pay to see them play a drinking hole near you.
admittedly, nobody does slave-ship johnny cash better, but some guys in a van playing singer songwriter songs or pretty much all music in general leaves me cold now.
consume it. enjoy it.

not sure abt that, early Swans were reputedly the loudest band ever. in a contest between early Swans and Slipknot to determine who was the most "tame", early Swans would lose.

xxp

I mean Slipknot are a million times louder and millions of kids listen to them.

this is the absurdest of all absurd comparisons in the history of time

I'm just asking why Slipknot aren't considered extreme. But you're right, I'm sorry about my lack of clarity.

it's like saying james brown sounds so tame compared to today's funkmasters like the red hot chili peppers

What I mean to say is, the proverbial mom of yesterday would say, "turn that extreme underground industrial music off". When a lot of it is rhythmic and less abrasive to my classically trained ears. Whereas the same type of mom twenty years on says, "oh look at my cute punk rock kid." Some of today's music is really loud, but sell a lot of product and it's okay.

I do think the Red Hot Chili Peppers are less tame in the presentation and in the actual texture in the music. It's not a qualitative comparison. I mean, my grandmother likes James Brown. She would find the Chili Peppers "too noisy".

if a kid was listening to a slipknot record a proverbial mom of today would say "turn down that emo mall metal, kid", if they were listening to public castration is a good idea she would say "please don't kill yourself, do I need to call someone"

also what do you have against moms moms can be cool too

I kinda see what you mean though. I know a bunch of people who are into bands like Slipknot or other metal and I've tried to turn them onto Swans. One of them really liked it - the rest without fail would say something like "this is really, really horrible"

yeah so they don't like it b/c it's too extreme, not b/c it's too tame

yeah let's compare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fVE8kSM43I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSRjYYUE-_c

Of course not, this is art band, so it's probably not their thing.

Sorry to invoke so much attention. I'll leave the thread to wrongly enjoy something.

yeah but when you describe them as "industrial frowncore" their ears perk up

you don't have to leave, it's just there were a lot of bands who seemed weird and scary and oppressive back in the day, swans are one of the few whose recordings haven't aged a bit, that purity of vision still smashes all comers imo

Maybe they haven't aged because they weren't that "scary". Some people found angry hardcore "scary". Some people found Satan references in heavy metal "scary". So maybe not scary at all...just more thoughtful of how their work might sound in twenty years! Which is pretty listenable, actually.

yeeeah, i don't think early Swans "sounds so tame by today's standards" at all. it's still kind of the gold standard for heavy, punishing stuff imo.

yeah see that's not what I'm getting, why you find early Swans more listenable than Slipknot

Punishing? It's awesome!

The early stuff sounds so tame by today's standards.

― โตเกียวเหมียวเหมียว aka Colored on TV! (Mount Cleaners), Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:51 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, i don't get this at all. shit was horrible, near-unlistenable dirge groan back then and still is today. slipknot are a funtimes metal band.

sometimes I see ppl discover swans and they subsequently ask "what else is like this" and the answer is, nothing really. you can point to stuff like godflesh or neurosis, but those folks capture the music but not the magic, nobody took sour brutality to the same primal places. what swans did transcended the intellectual or theatrical pretenses bound up in a term like "art band", delivering instead something very direct, visceral, and punishing. which is why they did ultimately have an effect on the hardcore and metal scenes, but all those bands are easily recognizable as hardcore or metal bands, whereas swans invented a type of music that didn't exist before and hasn't since.

Saw them in 1985 supporting the Fall at Heaven. Possibly the most extreme gig I've ever seen. They deserve some respect for going that far.
I have heard few of their albums. Those that I have heard have been among the most negative, miserable, pointless pieces of music that I have ever encountered. No doubt Gira would in some way approve of this reaction. I couldn't care less. Dud.

― Dr. C, Saturday, March 17, 2001 1:00 AM (11 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Funny I was at this gig in 1984 I think. Have it associated in my head with the Black Flag Marquee gig & the first Bad Seeds show at the Electric Ballroom.
It's always stuck in my mind. Gira pulling himself up and down with a noose hanging slightly in front of the stage. Not sure how many people actually stayed for the full set particularly as the bar was elsewhere from what I recall.

Loved their material pretty much ever since.

How's their live show nowadays? I am considering seeing them in Milwaukee but I'm not really sure what to expect or if it's even something I can enjoy. I feel like it's going to be the aural equivilent of banging my head against the wall but I kinda want to do it anyway.

you seemed to get on okay w/the internet equivalent of banging your head against a wall so