the finance industry / wall street

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But I don't care. I expect to make enough money to be out of this business in a few years. I think I would like to go back to university. I have become very interested in the humanities and philosophy.

my friend used to work for a company that designed materials to help assuage successful businessmen about their guilt at having made huge amounts of money

it was a bunch of pseudophilosophical tracts that, when boiled down, said "yes, you DESERVED to make all that money! don't feel bad! if you like, give some to charity!"

dayo, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's amazing

iatee, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha you know him! you can ask T about it sometime

dayo, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

!

how would u even find such a company? do they leave brochures lying around hotels in st moritz

diouf est le papa du foot galsen merde lè haters (nakhchivan), Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

company reps on every 35th storey ledge in new york

diouf est le papa du foot galsen merde lè haters (nakhchivan), Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

I wish I could find the article, from the NYT I think, about a Ph.D. in math from Berkeley, a logician even, who took a quant job, made gobs of cash, fucked things up so that his company lost gobs of cash, quit, & ended up doing shark fishing in the Pacific, because it had the thrills to which he'd become accustomed on Wall Street.

Euler, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

article would be from the late 1990s I think

Euler, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:24 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha wow yeah I'm gonna I want to hear more xp

iatee, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

I might be misremembering but I think that's the thrust

I imagine this company was probably started by a successful businessman turned professional confessional

dayo, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

pretty sure that article wasn't from the 90s cuz it would have been made into a major motion picture with cuba gooding jr in a supporting role

diouf est le papa du foot galsen merde lè haters (nakhchivan), Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

relevant to our interests here:

If Aristotle Ran General Motors: The New Soul of Business

written by a former Notre Dame philosophy prof who now is fantastically wealthy peddling this sorta stuff to the plutocrats

Euler, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

I've looked SO LONG for that article over the last few years (shark fishing quant I mean); I think I read a scan of it on a webpage in the 90s & now I can find nothing.

Euler, Thursday, 15 September 2011 21:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

the monk who sold his ferrari kinda shite

talking heads, quiet smith (darraghmac), Friday, 16 September 2011 17:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

have long pondered a book of common-sense negativity, provisional title 'feel the fear and cop the fuck on'

talking heads, quiet smith (darraghmac), Friday, 16 September 2011 17:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

Detective Superintendent Lee Neiles told the hearing: ‘Mr Birch had been redundant since September 2009 and had had difficulties in finding other means of employment, although the family were financially stable.’

god I *hate* the british use of the term 'redundant'. it's so callous.

iatee, Friday, 16 September 2011 17:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

not in the british meaning, though

talking heads, quiet smith (darraghmac), Friday, 16 September 2011 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

iykwim

talking heads, quiet smith (darraghmac), Friday, 16 September 2011 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah I guess I didn't think of that! but from an american's perspective it just sounds evil.

iatee, Friday, 16 September 2011 17:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

here it's like 'you were bad at your job' or 'we can't afford you' but 'redundant' gives me a sense of 'you are unnecessary as a human being'

which means it probably was correctly used w/r/t to this banker, but outside of that...

iatee, Friday, 16 September 2011 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

nobody rly uses redundant as a synonym for unemployed and 'laid off' is more often used instead of 'made redundant' in newspapers etc

i think it's just policemen and their strangely clunky phrasing, cf 'other means of employment' instead of 'a job'

diouf est le papa du foot galsen merde lè haters (nakhchivan), Friday, 16 September 2011 17:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

'made redundant' still common terminology iirc, though there's subtle emp. law differences between the two i think

talking heads, quiet smith (darraghmac), Friday, 16 September 2011 17:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

it is a shitty term tho, def

diouf est le papa du foot galsen merde lè haters (nakhchivan), Friday, 16 September 2011 17:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

eh i dunno, it's quite useful as a means of conveying the right tone of contempt society ought to feel for the wastrel layabouts tbh

talking heads, quiet smith (darraghmac), Friday, 16 September 2011 17:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

I have no problem w/redundant. It doesn't imply fault like 'fired' does. It implies that the employer doesn't have any meaningful/profitable work for you to do.

em vee equals pea queue (Michael White), Friday, 16 September 2011 18:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's awful

partistan (dayo), Friday, 16 September 2011 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

this is typical police illiterately pretentious usage though. no one except a policeman would say "he has been redundant for a year". you get made redundant, and then you are unemployed. like how only police say "i was proceeding along oxford st" or "he asked myself how to get to piccadilly circus".

caek, Saturday, 17 September 2011 07:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

holler

is it shakeymostep? (cozen), Saturday, 17 September 2011 08:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

Redundant is only a little better than 'managed out'. Not by much.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 17 September 2011 08:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

further underscoring the impotency of the SEC

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/business/sec-official-in-madoff-case-may-draw-a-criminal-inquiry.html?_r=1

partistan (dayo), Saturday, 17 September 2011 11:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

ts your maddie vs our maddie

talking heads, quiet smith (darraghmac), Saturday, 17 September 2011 14:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Adoboli (who, let me stress, has yet to enter a plea) was in exchange traded funds – which used to look like unit trusts, but have got increasingly complicated. One of the top market regulators, Mario Draghi, recently described ETFs as "reminiscent of what happened in the securitisation market before the crisis". Read that quote again: he's comparing them to sub-prime mortgages. Most of us should get very worried; rogue traders should go steaming in.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/19/brain-food-ubs-kweku-adoboli/print

diouf est le papa du foot galsen merde lè haters (nakhchivan), Monday, 19 September 2011 23:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/business/dodd-frank-act-is-a-target-on-gop-campaign-trail.html

Republicans say Dodd-Frank is the root of some of today’s economic problems. It has stopped banks from lending to “job creators,” they contend, and is a direct cause of high unemployment. “It created such uncertainty that the bankers, instead of making loans, pulled back,” said Mitt Romney, the former Massachusetts governor, speaking at a South Carolina rally over Labor Day weekend where he again called for the law’s repeal.

ahahahaha

hahahah

haha

...

*shoots self*

Whiney G. Blutfarten (dayo), Wednesday, 21 September 2011 10:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,788462,00.html

for this headline I am not against journalistic muckraking

dayo, Monday, 26 September 2011 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

Jérôme Kerviel, gambled away billions in 2010. He is still serving a three-year jail sentence.

p cool how you can lose billions and just do 3 years in a minimum security jail

dayo, Monday, 26 September 2011 18:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

that study sounds pretty weak but oh well i'm still always happy when people push the psychopath angle, cuz if there were a cultural and spiritual system that caused and possibly even mandated people who were not psychopaths to behave like psychopaths that system might benefit from review

the-dream in the witch house (difficult listening hour), Monday, 26 September 2011 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

never review ILM, please

dayo, Monday, 26 September 2011 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

Milton Parker, Monday, 26 September 2011 19:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeesh

runaway (Matt P), Monday, 26 September 2011 19:59 (2 years ago) Permalink

hahaha! they rule! literally.

scott seward, Monday, 26 September 2011 20:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

you would think they could afford better cameras

dayo, Monday, 26 September 2011 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

and thrones

runaway (Matt P), Monday, 26 September 2011 20:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

they should throw blood diamonds at all the passing hippies.

scott seward, Monday, 26 September 2011 20:09 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm no help cuz i kinda hate all the people involved. the cops, the fatcats, the hippies. they all need some billy club action.

scott seward, Monday, 26 September 2011 20:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

The Hibernian Express will shave six milliseconds off that time.
Of course, verifiable figures are elusive and estimates vary wildly, but it is claimed that a one millisecond advantage could be worth up to $100m (£63m) a year to the bottom line of a large hedge fund.

This is kind of the real plot of the latest William Gibson novel

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 26 September 2011 20:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

A high-speed fibre network between London and Hong Kong could help decrease financial trading times

Financial traders and law firms are set to benefit from a new low-latency network between London and Hong Kong, which can conduct data on a round trip from Europe to Asia in around 176 milliseconds.

The cable network, run by UK-based trading technology company BSO Network Solutions, has been in place for some time, but previously had to route around large parts of Russia, due to difficulties laying fibre in that country.

However, a new lower latency and higher availability ‘Transit Mongolia’ connection has helped to reduce the time of a round trip by more than 20 milliseconds during the last 12 months. Improvements have also been made at BSO’s Ancotel point-of-presence (POP) in Frankfurt and Mega-I POP in Hong Kong.

dayo, Monday, 26 September 2011 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

the real reason they are installing these new high speed pipes is to have the world's best COD5 ping time

dayo, Monday, 26 September 2011 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

Some dude in my building just volunteered to me out of the blue that he's been camping out on Wall Street.

I guess I kind of support that except I don't really understand the protest. There doesn't seem to be any focus or goal.

Disraeli Geirs (Hurting 2), Monday, 26 September 2011 20:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

If anything this is the most recent story in a long chain of 'the market is rigged' quasi revelations of the past couple decades. if you didn't know the market is rigged already you're not paying attention.

then again I've had all my money in a savings account for the last decade like a fucking asshole so what do I know

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 16:02 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stocks opened the second quarter on a higher note on Tuesday, with the S&P 500 hitting >>>a record high<<<, after data on manufacturing indicated economic growth was gaining traction after a harsh winter.

^Part of the reason for lack of traction? Market is up like 125% in 5 years.

bnw, Tuesday, 1 April 2014 16:18 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

This is a neat site to play with wrt the S&P
http://www.multpl.com/

Looks like we are hitting not only a nominal but nearing a real (inflation-adjusted) high in the S&P. However, earnings are also nearing a high. BUT, P/E looks high historically -- not insane high, but like probably ready for a correction high.

james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 16:57 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

btw you know what else is historically pretty high? Home prices:
http://www.multpl.com/case-shiller-home-price-index-inflation-adjusted/

james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 1 April 2014 16:58 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

the article salmon links to that he wrote earlier on HFT points to the real issues.

if it really is just skimming fractions of pennies whatever, but the problem is they do much more than that and occasionally go nuts. also when something goes wrong everything goes massively out of control quickly, and furthermore they only 'provide liquidity' when everything is already liquid. the moment there's a disruption they pull out entirely and things go massively jagged.

the problem i'd imagine for the book is that getting ppl to talk about their weird prop algos is _hard_, but getting them to talk about being "more efficient" by a fraction of a second is the sort of thing they're not afraid to play up.

wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, 2 April 2014 20:29 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

yeah theyre not called black boxes for nothing

panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 2 April 2014 21:00 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

I think some of the "pro" arguments are making it sound like these company's just narrow the spreads, but my impression is that they actually inflate the price very slightly.

And yeah there is more stuff that HFTs do than just this kind of quasi-frontrunning, and I agree that the "provide liquidity" argument doesn't seem to make much sense, or if it does there's just something I'm not understanding. If 100,000 shares are already available for sale and all an HFT does is instantly buy and resell them, that might increase trading volume by a lot but it doesn't seem to truly increase liquidity in any meaningful sense.

james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 2 April 2014 21:24 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

lewis is a great writer tho and the excerpts are just excerpts so i'll read the real book and see then.

(nb: i've met people at hft shops that really are pretty simple stuff, in the main [or at least rumored to be, they're not allowed to say], and also have met ppl at other more hedgefundy hft shops, and the ones at the fancier ones from what i've heard look down at the other guys as chumps who don't like to take risks. also the _exact same_ sort of not-really-frontrunning happened way before hft and electronic trading took off, because at human scale time you can still spot the pattern of a big order being chunked out in blocks and get ahead of it)

wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, 2 April 2014 22:05 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

Well, "could spot" is probably more accurate than "can spot" no? I mean these orders themselves move so fast now that only the HFT guys can see them in "real time" is my impression, no?

james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 2 April 2014 22:07 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/books/2014/04/michael_lewis_s_flash_boys_about_high_frequency_trading_reviewed.html

More Felix Salmon (I think. I have not compared to the earlier Salmon Reuters article linked above)

But what we’re seeing, in the world of HFT, is not fraud, nor is it insider trading. Rather, HFT is a ridiculously and unnecessarily complicated mechanism for divvying up intermediation revenues between banks, exchanges, high-tech telecommunications outfits, and various algo-driven shops. Everybody is in on the game: not just the HFT guys, but also the exchanges, which optimize themselves for HFT game-playing, and the banks, which let HFTs into their dark pools, and especially the SEC, which has been cheering on the whole motley crew from the beginning. Even the big money managers are in on the act.

curmudgeon, Monday, 7 April 2014 16:21 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

^^

schwantz, Monday, 7 April 2014 19:44 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Nonsense. That's pretty much like saying "let's stop talking about Crimea because the real crisis is in (Syria, Palestine, ____)"

Besides, (1) I don't think we fully know the impact and/or potential impact of this stuff, and (2) in any case, the entire market has dramatically restructured itself in less than a decade, and it's something that needs to be better understood. Maybe it's not something the average person needs to care all that much about, but it's still an important topic.

ביטקוין‎ (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 14:56 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Also, it seems to me like Wall Street and various trading firms feel very threatened by all this discussion. There's lots of spinning and covering and smokescreening going on. A lot of people with interests in this activity are unhappy about all the attention. That alone to me says we should look at it more closely. Goldman Sachs today announced that it's considering closing its dark pool all of a sudden. That sounds like anxious behavior to me.

ביטקוין‎ (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 14:58 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

nah i agree with cathy here. 'fixing' hft wouldn't fix anything about what's really wrong. to flip hurting's analogy, focusing on HFT is like complaining israeli soldiers in the occupied territories aren't getting meals with a proper nutritional balance.

wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 15:12 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

"the food is terrible."

"and in such small portions!"

wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 15:12 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I remember leftish publications making an issue over interest rate swaps that wound up screwing over municipalities/pension funds. That was an smaller issue in terms of magnitude of impact, and the banks' conduct there was more justifiable and less egregious. Skimming off small amounts from every trade a public pension fund makes still aggregates to a good chunk of money that does wind up costing individual retirees.

ביטקוין‎ (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 15:19 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

if yr referring to swaps manipulation i think the "screwing pensions funds" angle on that was pretty fake too. depended what side of the swap they were on!

wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 16:00 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

http://www.thenation.com/article/179233/why-wall-street-firms-make-terrible-landlords

Big money and cutthroat landlords have never been strangers to New York’s real estate market. But the descent of private equity firms on the city in the early years of this century was so striking that housing advocates dubbed the practice “predatory equity.” The name refers to the tactics these companies resorted to once it became clear that longtime tenants weren’t going to leave.

...

For tenants, these private equity purchases were essentially a lose-lose situation. For the deal to succeed, tenants had to be forced out. If, on the other hand, the deal failed and tenants got to stay, landlords immediately disinvested from the buildings, making the living conditions worse than ever.

Orson Wellies (in orbit), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 16:04 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

^ insane. gonna re-post it in the gentrification thread

hug niceman (psychgawsple), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 17:01 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

if yr referring to swaps manipulation i think the "screwing pensions funds" angle on that was pretty fake too. depended what side of the swap they were on!

― wat is teh waht (s.clover), Wednesday, April 9, 2014 12:00 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well yeah, and I also found it pretty unconvincing that taking the wrong side of an interest rate swap was the same as "getting screwed" -- they just bet the wrong way on rates. So maybe a bad example.

ביטקוין‎ (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 18:50 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Also, in re that landlord thing -- as I said in the other thread, I lived in a building that had been bought by Black Rock. We were market rate tenants, but there were a lot of stabilized tenants left. There was definitely an effort to push them out, although I didn't get the impression that they were denying basic services -- mostly more doing "improvements" to the building and then seeking rent board increases. They had a very good management company running the place -- at least they were good to us, perhaps less so to the stabilized tenants.

What strikes me about that nation piece and about the practice described is how NAIVE it actually sounds like some of these investment funds are being about owning and managing rental properties. Their assumptions just sound totally unrealistic.

ביטקוין‎ (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 9 April 2014 20:42 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

More on that, with scathing quotes from a retiring SEC attorney
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-04-08/sec-goldman-lawyer-says-agency-too-timid-on-wall-street-misdeeds

The SEC has become “an agency that polices the broken windows on the street level and rarely goes to the penthouse floors,” Kidney said, according to a copy of his remarks obtained by Bloomberg News. “On the rare occasions when enforcement does go to the penthouse, good manners are paramount. Tough enforcement, risky enforcement, is subject to extensive negotiation and weakening.”

ביטקוין‎ (Hurting 2), Friday, 11 April 2014 15:57 (1 week ago) Permalink

motherfuckers.

purposely lend impetus to my HOOS (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 11 April 2014 22:23 (1 week ago) Permalink


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