i don't have a preference for suburb livin so much as a dislike of city livin. that's true for most people (my age) I know who live in the 'burbs.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:00 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/01/07/new-report-roads-dont-pay-for-themselves/
― iatee, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:00 (twelve years ago) link
and?
― let me save you some time - yes, you are probably anti-semantic (jjjusten), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:00 (twelve years ago) link
like can we skip the part where we list off all the other things that dont visibly pay for themselves please
― let me save you some time - yes, you are probably anti-semantic (jjjusten), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_State_Toll_Highway_Authority
^weird quasi-governmental, quasi-private entity
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
(and regardless 'paying for themselves' is misleading even if the gas tax were raised in this situation. $ from a gas tax should be used entirely to offset environmental damage, not to promote more.)
― iatee, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:01 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hkWhq7Z-Y4
― markderps (buzza), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:02 (twelve years ago) link
for someone who harps about how people should acknowledge the privilege that enables their place and status in life, you seem pretty blind to the fact that living in a suburb or rural area w/ a car is a pretty big fucking privilege
umm...if you say so, I guess? I don't in any way deny that it's a pretty intensely privileged condition - there's a difference between accepting an argument & feeling an irresistible compulsion to be a sanctimonious dick about it
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:05 (twelve years ago) link
I guess it's okay to prefer the city over the suburbs if you've lived in both, but so many great experiences happen even in the most anodyne environments. Isn't this what most of us who listen to and write about music love about our favorite songs? If you let the burden of expectations crush you or submit to the imagined squalor of your environs, then the problem is you, not geography.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, September 7, 2011 3:49 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark
awesome post
― runaway (Matt P), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
I mean if I'm the guy noticing the sanctimony that oughta be a pretty big red flag given my notoriously high tolerance for sanctimony
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:06 (twelve years ago) link
lol aero as if you are never a sanctimonious dick to others w/r/t their privilege
― dayo, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
you may be missing the point here dude
― let me save you some time - yes, you are probably anti-semantic (jjjusten), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
I think that was his point
xpost
― Battlestar Gracián (crüt), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
would not really characterize iatee as sanctimonious in tone, and i know from sanctimonious
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:10 (twelve years ago) link
what a beautiful word
― runaway (Matt P), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:10 (twelve years ago) link
dayo you might study the xpost function dude
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
display name that keeps on giving
― let me save you some time - yes, you are probably sanctimonious (jjjusten), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
lol sorry - it's been a long day, my reading comprehension is shot
― dayo, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
it's cool even though I get mad I am kinda (predictably liberal dude here) into getting called out for my privilege, feel it's healthy, so while I hate it when ppl are mad at me I appreciate u goin in
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
I have trouble keeping iatee's actual characteristics straight because he's so good at jumping into debates and picking a viewpoint that he may in no way resemble
― mh, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
I'd like to invite all of you to my condo in the burbs, where I'm about to open a bottle of wine. Enjoy my privilege!
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:16 (twelve years ago) link
it's funny that members of ilx's 'hard left' seem to think this isn't a pretty basic left/right issue both w/r/t the environment and the fact that the costs of owning a car / lack of alternatives are an enormous burden on the american poor. when gas prices go up again, people are gonna be skipping meals so they can get to their job. does that make you happy? well it doesn't make me happy either. really.
hey, it's not your subject, you like your house, whatever, that's not the issue. I don't think it's crazy that someone would prefer a big house and lawn over a small apt in a busy city, I think it's crazy that we live in a world where a small apt in a busy city costs more than a big house and a lawn.
it's not really ~that difficult~ to accept that the status quo is unsustainable and, at the very least not something we should be actively encouraging w/ government policy.
― iatee, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:16 (twelve years ago) link
well, sure, but some of us have learned to enjoy the bomb.
And, on a serious note, picking our battles.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
let's not hate on each other for the battles we picked
― dayo, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
ilx is not about "picking our battles"
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:18 (twelve years ago) link
i took you for a member of ilx's 'hard left', iatee.
― kkvgz, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:18 (twelve years ago) link
hugging everyone through the tears
― runaway (Matt P), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
I think it's crazy that we live in a world where a small apt in a busy city costs more than a big house and a lawn.
uh you realize that this is not at all true in most cities right
― let me save you some time - yes, you are probably sanctimonious (jjjusten), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
― kkvgz, Wednesday, September 7, 2011 7:18 PM (35 seconds ago) Bookmark
i think this is about the politics thread, where morbs, aero and Alfred (kind of?) are the hard left
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
there are like three real cities in america
― dayo, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
like let me tell you what when you figure in mortgage/maintanance/insurance/property taxes i would have a lot more money living back in my old apartment
― let me save you some time - yes, you are probably sanctimonious (jjjusten), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:20 (twelve years ago) link
idg your point here. doesn't the small apt in the big city cost so much because so many people with means have decided that they want to live there and that they value walkability, etc?
I mean, I guess I see what you're saying: that the overall social and environmental cost of the tract home mcmansion developments should be factored into their price to balance out their negative effects? But realistically I'm not sure how that could happen.
― the wheelie king (wk), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:21 (twelve years ago) link
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, September 7, 2011 6:17 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
this seems so fundamentally contradictory to your attitude in the politics thread o_O
― D-40, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:22 (twelve years ago) link
hipsters did unaffordable nyc rents
― buzza, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:22 (twelve years ago) link
dayo dude trolling is like drinking a fine wine you dont just dump the whole bottle out into your glass like that
― let me save you some time - yes, you are probably sanctimonious (jjjusten), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:23 (twelve years ago) link
re: picking our battles - i enjoy these debates because they arise from actual ideological rifts in this community that can seem pretty monolithic in thought sometimes. stuff like land use, gun rights, the death penalty, etc - it's not really possible to have an honest disagreement on most other issues of the day since most of us approach them from about the same place
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:24 (twelve years ago) link
Do I contradict myself? Very well. I contradict myself.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
Also, serious question for people who know about planning, environmental stuff, etc. Which is worse, living in a suburb a half hour outside of NY or LA, or living in a denser neighborhood in an inland city? About half of the shipping containers that come through the Port of Los Angeles end up east of the Rockies. It seems that in some ways, living in the suburban sprawl of southern California is more responsible than living in many of the other "big" cities in the U.S.
― the wheelie king (wk), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:34 (twelve years ago) link
whoa -- do I repeat myself? Very well. I repeat myself.
― Anakin Ska Walker (AKA Skarth Vader) (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:35 (twelve years ago) link
― runaway (Matt P), Thursday, 8 September 2011 00:06 (13 minutes ago) Bookmark
co-sign, w/belated caveat asserting my right to continue hating on places i live/have lived for depriving me of the thrills i was looking for. it is a different thread, i think; taking sides between a city of manufactured opportunities and absorbing distractions and social communion, versus, the sheer impetus and repurposable fury you get from hating where you live & being denied the amenities that would pass an evening sweetly. i am thinking of moving atm, & when you are actually trying to quantify + sort through the various repercussions & benefits of having access to certain things it makes your head spin.
― Carl Theodor Dreyer (uncredited) (schlump), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:36 (twelve years ago) link
what city did you live in (or still live in an adjoining suburb) jjjusten? what was its population density?
― dayo, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:38 (twelve years ago) link
what cityies
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
I just wanna know about the one where he had his apartment
― dayo, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:39 (twelve years ago) link
it's funny that members of ilx's 'hard left' seem to think this isn't a pretty basic left/right issue both w/r/t the environment and the fact that the costs of owning a car / lack of alternatives are an enormous burden on the american poor.
iatee otm
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:40 (twelve years ago) link
I don't actually disagree w/you iatee (though as I think I've said, if I had to live with lots of noise & around a lot of people I would probably commit suicide which for me would suck but how I feel isn't really a factor in things in the long view) it's just that y'all for whom this is a Big Working Issue sound like Hugo from The Iceman Cometh pretty much every time the subject comes up
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:41 (twelve years ago) link
yeah but that happens to all of us whenever our axes get sent up in the daily rotation
― dayo, Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
About half of the shipping containers that come through the Port of Los Angeles end up east of the Rockies.
This is more about the fact that they come from Asia, than it is about where they're headed. It's still more efficient to import containers to West Coast ports and take them to the middle of the country or even the East Coast by rail, than it is for Asian goods to reach an East Coast port.
― Octavia Butler's gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiised (Laurel), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:42 (twelve years ago) link
no wai I always sound reasonable & even-keeled
― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 7 September 2011 23:44 (twelve years ago) link