generation limbo: 20-somethings today, debt, unemployment, the questionable value of a college education

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (2171 of them)

is this from univ. of utility data?

Philip Nunez, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:04 (2 years ago) Permalink

No College Student Left Behind is just around the corner, once you pass the nationally applied gen ed integrated learning objectives that seem imminent :-/

i drive a wood paneled station dragon (La Lechera), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

(i sincerely hope i'm wrong about that btw)

i drive a wood paneled station dragon (La Lechera), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

"These best practices have been developed by the regional accrediting commissions in response to the emergence of technologically mediated instruction offered at a distance as an important component of higher education. CAn I get a what what!? Expressing in detail what currently constitutes best practice in distance education, specifically electronically offered degree and certificate programs, shit is whack, they seek to address concerns that regional accreditation standards are not relevant to the new distributed learning environments, especially when those environments are experienced by offcampus students."

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

No College Student Left Behind is just around the corner, once you pass the nationally applied gen ed integrated learning objectives that seem imminent :-/

I think a better situation would be a national credentialing system - if you graduate w/ an BA (or if you don't) you should have to take and pass a competitive national test for your field. some sort of post-college (or college alternative) skills and intelligence measure. having an alternate way to prove yourself would eventually take some pressure of people going to college just for the sake of going to college.

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

tho fwiw self-taught lawyers still can't practice if the pass the bar etc.

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:12 (2 years ago) Permalink

ah yes, but who will design that test
that is the terrifying question (for me, at least)

i drive a wood paneled station dragon (La Lechera), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

its nicer to have to pass a test than pass a workload

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

you would say that

i drive a wood paneled station dragon (La Lechera), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

hope self-taught doctors are barred too

Once Were Moderators (DG), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

take some pressure off* xp

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

"The Commission invites participation in of one seven Regional Forums on Commission Initiatives. Think you can bring it? These forums provide the opportunity to hear about proposed changes in the Criteria for Accreditation and the development and implementation of the new Open Pathway model for continued accreditation, and to provide comments, ask questions, and raise issues.Also booty blast session and 1$ drafts"

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:16 (2 years ago) Permalink

if a self-taught doctor can pass the same test as one who had to spend 200k to learn that stuff, not sure what the problem would be. obv doctors require hospital and lab experience and the institutions for this alternative don't exist. but they could.

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:18 (2 years ago) Permalink

there's also a gap growing w/r/t private schools in that the best schools can all pretty much give full-rides to the poor/middle class kids they admit. I think going to a no-name local private school is prob the worst deal you can get right now tho. xp

― iatee, Friday, September 2, 2011 11:49 AM (17 minutes ago)

yeah, this wasn't quite the case 20 years ago, but the disparity was pretty large, in that my first choice college, while it may have given me a pre-eminent proto-hipster education, was a 2nd/3rd tier liberal arts college that waitlisted me for financial aid, and my second choice college gave me 1/2 a free ride, and that's how i ended up at an ivy.

sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

I think a better situation would be a national credentialing system - if you graduate w/ an BA (or if you don't) you should have to take and pass a competitive national test for your field. some sort of post-college (or college alternative) skills and intelligence measure. this isn't even well-implemented for high schools yet, i think colleges doing something like this is years/decades off. not to mention that a lot of fields can't be measured using a 'competitive national test' b/c education doesn't work like that.

having an alternate way to prove yourself would eventually take some pressure of people going to college just for the sake of going to college. - yes, absolutely.

remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:20 (2 years ago) Permalink

sarahel was your first choice sarahelawrence

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

(sorry I actually don't want to know the answer to that)

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

xp - it was Reed College in Portlandia

sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

fwiw I didn't know quite what I wanted to do and was mystified by all the college application stuff so while my peers had parents who were helping them around on it or looking at schools I felt oddly guilty -- I didn't know what I wanted to do, and that would help me pick a school, so why am I going to spend money and time applying to all these schools?

It didn't take me too long to figure out I was wrong once I was in college, but then I was all mopey and just tried to explain this to my parents so it'd count in for my sister, but then she ended up going to the state university, too, since she had reasons to stay close at the time and they gave her a full ride scholarship

unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

kinda lol at the School of the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston for such a huge tutiotn and there are no grades just at the end of the semester "pass or fail" based on them looking at your stuff - why pay for that

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's a decent article, though who the fuck thought that the example "girl gets swept into a fairly popular American rock band" was somehow
even remotely appropriate? Maybe a reunited LCD Soundsystem will save me from my temp job?

I'm certainly jaded after college and I find the most terrible thing about it is my current career path. I was able to get a student
employment job working medical admin and have since been bouncing from temp admin job to temp admin job for the past three years.
I can't complain about being gainfully employed, but the fact that I'm 26 with an MA and was only able to afford to turn my hot water on a month ago
is certainly depressing. Lately I've taken to working on my writing as a full time job. Though I'm reaching mixed success with that, it at least makes me feel like I'm not wasting the years I put into school.

Ryan, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

One though I keep having is that despite my ambivalence about having children (I don't believe I should reproduce personally, and adoption is a lot more of an ordeal than signing up for free baby delivery), I will be saving for their hypothetical college educations until I am quite positive that they are never going to manifest themselves in my life. Or my sister's life.

Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:26 (2 years ago) Permalink

(xp to Latham) I dunno, it kind of makes sense to me? Why should you be graded on your output as a Masters' candidate artist? You either do the work or you don't, and the feedback is valuable but the grade is irrelevent.

remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:27 (2 years ago) Permalink

well then I will pass or fail you and your work for 30$ - don't worry - I'm awesome

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:29 (2 years ago) Permalink

i'm interested in your 'just go to a state school argument' because how much does that then start closing doors to possible future careers? or at least certain career paths? i mean the % of ppl who are ever going to sit on the supreme court or be an svp of an investment bank or write for the simpsons or w/e is negligible already but the idea that anyone who cant afford/doesnt want to risk huge debt to pay for a private school shldn't even dream of it is p dispiriting

There's another thread about this somewhere - I remember posting a study from five or six years ago that looked at the socioeconomic class of students who attend the top-tier colleges (public and private) - 75% were drawn from the top-quarter of the socioeconomic scale, 3% from the bottom quarter.

Given the representation of those institutions in the arts, upper echelons of the business world, politics, etc., it's essentially a self-perpetuating oligarchy.

It's one reason I didn't finish my fine arts degree from a run of the mill public 'national research university' (UT-Arlington, god knows how national it actually is) - what the fuck does that piece of paper do for me? Am I really competitive getting into a good MFA program vs someone with lesser work from SVA/an Ivy/etc.?

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

in the art world that presumably these students are preparing for, it really is often just an issue of pass/fail

sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:31 (2 years ago) Permalink

is there an art world anymore?

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:32 (2 years ago) Permalink

what is art?

dayo, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

last year, i participated in a group discussion of art school MFA students and recent grads about a "just arts economy." it was very frustrating and i felt like an asshole.

sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:34 (2 years ago) Permalink

must have been painful

remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

what i meant to ask was whether the conversation flowed smooth and easy, or was hard and uncomfortable?

remy bean, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

the upshot was that 90% of them were upset that they had paid $30k-$40k a year in tuition and were not making a living as artists.

sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:36 (2 years ago) Permalink

I mean I think the "art world" was this rich patron thing that eventually just become irrelevant - Andy Wrhol was the last vestige IMO

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

my friend Sean, who has an MFA and makes a living as a financial planner tried to raise the issue of supply and demand, but they shot it down as hegemonical bs or something like that.

sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

There are more obscenely rich people today than when Warhol was alive.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:38 (2 years ago) Permalink

Oh no, there still some very wealthy people supporting artists. I think we call them "trustafarians" now.

unwarranted display names of ilx (mh), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

"the upshot was that 90% of them were upset that they had paid $30k-$40k a year in tuition and were not making a living as artists."

Shocker.

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I call them "people who should be gving ME money instead to make my shitty songs"

http://www.meca.edu/news/support-meca
actually we have one here - Roxxame Quimby

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

I'm kind of sad that democratizing art via the Internet has kind of taken the form of 20x200 (and similar), which is okay for photography but renders everything else they put out more decoration than art (because it's all just scans and inkjet prints, more like a poster you buy at the mall than 'art' with any kind of engagement with the artist).

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:40 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah like this is why we can't be telling people that college is a purely economic decision (even though the BLS indicates that it still has that effect). If you want to spend four years training as an artist, that is awesome and you might have a great time, but nobody should be telling you that you are going to graduate into a well-paying sculpture job.

Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

I was in "the art world" allot at least in academics as a youngster and now I am fille dwith a sense of fear and loathing when ever I pass Maine COllege of Art

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:41 (2 years ago) Permalink

Is anyone telling sculpture students that? Cuz that would be truly irresponsible.

Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:42 (2 years ago) Permalink

do you know what they do? ... they ask your for an ARTISTS STATEMENT

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

COL!!! (crying out loud)

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:44 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah s'what I'm saying, I don't know if anyone is telling them that, but cf. sarahel's anecdote; plenty of people still have an expectation that going to college and learning a lot about something could launch them into a career doing that thing. whereas to actually make that work out you need a lot of luck and tenacity.

Do not go gentle into that good frogbs (silby), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

genius art IMO

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:45 (2 years ago) Permalink

I don't know anyone who went to or considered going to a high-dollar art school (grad or undergrad) who thought of it as a wise investment monetarily. They either considered the debt and didn't care, had family money enough to not give a shit, or were too starry-eyed to consider the implications - but none of them thought it was a guarantee of income afterward.

One of my first photo professors has been a "senior lecturer" for a decade, which cured me of any desire to get my MFA and try to find a teaching job.

Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

hey at least he has a job

iatee, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:48 (2 years ago) Permalink

ALIHAJ - "at least I havea job" is everyone's current self-soothe

http://www.losanjealous.com/nfc/perm.php?c=38&q=22

did you c/p that randomly or what (Latham Green), Friday, 2 September 2011 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe the difference between this generation and Gen X is that Gen X art students had a more realistic perspective on working as waiters and strippers to support themselves financially.

sarahel, Friday, 2 September 2011 19:52 (2 years ago) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.