about right
maybe the best miles album imo
― gay socialists smoking mushrooms with their illegal gardeners (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:30 (twelve years ago) link
Will be taking it down to #31 tonight. Originally was going to try take it down further and do the top 20 friday but i doubt we will have time.If there's lots of posts when we get to 31 i could continue but no point if no-ones around.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
It will finish friday though
I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to do the requisite research w citations to prove that "a love supreme" isn't seen as tranes best album by all jazz critics, unfortunately it takes more work than the wikipedia search you dudes did to prove it is acclaimed, but I've been reading about jazz since I was a teenager and have a decent grasp of the nature of jazz discourse thanks
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:31 (twelve years ago) link
hahaha
― zvookster, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:32 (twelve years ago) link
hey, i just want to say, no matter how inevitable the results are, i've seen at least three people on this thread listen to grant green for the first time because of this poll
― mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:33 (twelve years ago) link
Sam it's funny you say that, It's one of the earliest Miles cd's i bought and never got into it and i just found loads more I did. I will get back to it.
infact i'll spotify it now (i have that miles complete columbia box set but my cd players gone a bit weird and dont wanna scratch anything)
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:33 (twelve years ago) link
what i'm trying to say is
everyday is a winding road
i've seen at least three people on this thread listen to grant green for the first time because of this poll
warms the cockles of my heart
just to be clear here - deej's position is that Crouch and Kahn's public opinions about A Love Supreme have no bearing on the jazz canon, as they both have conflicts of interest/economic/professional incentives to promote it. Also we should take deej's word for it that tons of other jazz critics (presumably totally impartial ones with no conflicts of interest) don't rate ALS very highly.
xp
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:33 (twelve years ago) link
glad that's settled xp
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:34 (twelve years ago) link
I have also been reading about jazz since I was a teenager btw
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:34 (twelve years ago) link
There's quite a few albums in the top 50 I don't know or have only heard once, but I don't think I've hated any of the ones I've heard that made it. Maybe one day I'll get into vocal jazz?
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:35 (twelve years ago) link
in fact deej said everyone knew it was "one of his lesser albums" backing up his "vocal mantras" "smh @ rock dudes" "nowhere near among his best" opinions, read any jazz crit etc.
classic backpedal.gif
― zvookster, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:35 (twelve years ago) link
btw this is also an amazing book about 'outsider' jazz (lol starts with Coltrane tho) - well at least the first 2/3rds of it anyway
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:35 (twelve years ago) link
i sort of get and don't get your objection to sun ra, deej
i mean, for every moog spacheship suite he incorporated some pretty traditional jazz on his records. vocal jazz, too. i know he is critically ensconced because white people love outer space but i think in listening to his records people can be clued in to the wider tradition.
― mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:36 (twelve years ago) link
I didn't listen to jazz until i was like 23 and never read about it bar one big book in the library that recommended lots of it (from bebop to fusion inc free)
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:36 (twelve years ago) link
Just to be clear, shakey is putting words in my mouth
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:36 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe one day I'll get into vocal jazz?
aw what?! Betty Carter! that Byrd album! I repped for Blossom Dearie too but nobody cared
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:37 (twelve years ago) link
it's so big, looked like there was room
Zvookster what trane albums have u heard
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:37 (twelve years ago) link
i've read Alyn Shipton's A New History of Jazz, which is not thrilling prose but is really good, i recommend it
deej, giant steps favorite things blue train a love supreme and live at the village vangaurd again
― zvookster, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:39 (twelve years ago) link
oh i can listen to that kind of stuff fine, but i've never got into the big jazz singers
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:39 (twelve years ago) link
can't wait for love supreme to be #1 in this poll
― tylerw, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:39 (twelve years ago) link
that is of course irrelevant xxp
― zvookster, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
Has anyone actually linked to any jazz critics saying supreme is his best record
And for what its worth citing crouch is lol at one level bcuz hes a total jazz crit contrarian!
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
lol
I kinda don't expect it to be tho
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:40 (twelve years ago) link
just show me this canon!
guessing that deej's impression of jazz critical consensus is inside of books which are not archived forever on the internet
― mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:41 (twelve years ago) link
let me know if i'm wrong about that
i think the reason people are jumping on deej is because he spoke about a canon that he refers to but wont show a link to it when asked rather than for disagreeing with his point of view. If it was just that i'm sure there would be less clowning.xps
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
nothing wrong with listing books
― zvookster, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
anyway sketches of spain is a pretty fucking cool record, right
deep dark marches
― mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 21:40 (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
"no one has cited this except one guy who doesnt count" and you havent provided any critics who work towards YR point
just quit already dude
― gay socialists smoking mushrooms with their illegal gardeners (a hoy hoy), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:43 (twelve years ago) link
the issue was not "is it coltrane's best", it was if deej's "smh @ vocal mantras" was backed up by jazz dudes like he said
i <3 sketches of spain
― zvookster, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:43 (twelve years ago) link
smh @ castanets
― tylerw, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:44 (twelve years ago) link
Yes, but castanets played by Elvin Jones!
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:45 (twelve years ago) link
deej has been a manifesto in search of a subject since post one, railing against "rock dudes" when things turned up with 6 votes
― zvookster, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:45 (twelve years ago) link
basically it's my memory of jazz crit vs. deej's (I don't keep my crit library at work). Wilmer, Crouch, and Kahn all love ALS, dunno if they would call it "his best" but I think they would disagree with deej that no case could be made for it. When people write entire books about an album - even setting marketing reasons aside - they're implicitly acknowledging its value and priveleging it over other albums. I don't think anyone's written any books about "Crescent", for ex, even if it is cited as the clear template for ALS.
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:47 (twelve years ago) link
still laughing at "smh @ vocal mantras" but surely it would be better directed at om
― mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:47 (twelve years ago) link
hey now dont slag Om!
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:48 (twelve years ago) link
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, September 1, 2011 3:47 PM (5 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
because there is an audience for these records that there arent for other jazz canon LPs. a love supreme sold better than any other record he released
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:49 (twelve years ago) link
'smh @ vocal mantras' is making fun of the ~values of rock dudes~ not actually dissing 'a love supreme' which is fwiw an awesome record
like, of course crouch never wrote a piece called 'smh @ jazz mantras' -- his enemies are 'jazz that is too free' and 'jazz that doesnt swing,' not 'record collector rock dudes' (my enemies) per se
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:50 (twelve years ago) link
deej do "rock dudes" love Om?
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:52 (twelve years ago) link
'record collector rock dudes' (my enemies)
what are you doing here
tilting at windmills etc
What is wrong with 'record collector rock dudes'? :( isn't that what a lot of us are?And is a 'record collector rap dude' as bad as a rock one? i.e. you hate all record collectors?
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:53 (twelve years ago) link
not even! love that record! listen to it and think "oh my god it's full of stars," etc.!
― mutant slow drum (BradNelson), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:53 (twelve years ago) link
gonna go out on a limb here and say the real issue is deej hates himself and projects his rage onto others in order to distinguish himself from those like him
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:54 (twelve years ago) link
aww man no need to get personal in this thread
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 20:55 (twelve years ago) link