I'm reserving judgment on these other Byrd albums placing until I see where A New Perspective ranks
btw I had to take a break from all the exclusive-jazz-listening I've been doing over the past few days. moving onto Dio at the moment.
xp
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:36 (twelve years ago) link
Dio should have recorded with Miles & McLaughlin
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
but the jazz canon usually puts 'a love supreme' down as one of his lesser albums
think Stanley Crouch would beg to differ, among others
(I hate Stanley Crouch btw)
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:38 (twelve years ago) link
A Love Supreme is the only Coltrane album to get a "crown" in the 8th edition of the Penguin guide fwiw. And those dudes are pretty hostile to a lot of the spiritual jazz stuff.
― rob, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:39 (twelve years ago) link
THERE'S NO CASE TO BE MADE
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:40 (twelve years ago) link
ok on with the top 50. I guess I better not ask a mod to change the title...
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:40 (twelve years ago) link
50 John Coltrane - Olé Coltrane (1961) 1225 Points, 11 voteshttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hLY9DmXXlH4/TA0n5D6fr4I/AAAAAAAAB38/31j4hsyBwH4/s1600/ole-coltrane.jpghttp://open.spotify.com/album/5BGkenbuo3xY3CRblRPj8K
not a rock critic
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:40 (twelve years ago) link
Olé is fucking beautiful.
― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:41 (twelve years ago) link
xpwait, sorry, Ascension gets one too, but they really gush over ALS: "it is without precedent or parallel."
― rob, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:42 (twelve years ago) link
rob, and they were right. :)
― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:43 (twelve years ago) link
i thought ascension was only liked by free jazz guys and not classic jazz guys?
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:44 (twelve years ago) link
Re: A Love Supreme, it's not in my top 5, or even top 10, of Trane records. The actual music isn't dramatically different from Live At Birdland or Crescent, but the concept gives it an air of importance not seen in that way in his work before. For me, it's his Tommy, and like Tommy, it really came together when played live (which supposedly only happened twice, but one of those was recorded and released).
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:44 (twelve years ago) link
linking to jazz critics who like a love supreme isnt telling me anything since im not saying its a bad albumtake one logic class
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:44 (twelve years ago) link
Goat otm
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:45 (twelve years ago) link
jazz critics who like a love supreme
if this is what you got from those posts, maybe you should take one reading comprehension course?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:46 (twelve years ago) link
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:37 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
He shoulda been the vocalist in Tony Williams' Lifetime (imagine "One Word" an octave higher).
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:47 (twelve years ago) link
(I think you guys should just ignore him, tbh. Don't feed the special snowflake syndrome.)
― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:48 (twelve years ago) link
love supreme is a beautiful record. his best? probably not, but i think the fact that he conceived of it quite consciously as a "major work", a unified whole (not always the case with his records), is why it gets the sometimes overripe praise, at least relative to say Crescent (which i think is just as good).
― tylerw, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:48 (twelve years ago) link
yes, yes, tylerw OTM.
― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
it wouldn't have if you had voted deej!
also this. did the same thing in the hip hop poll - didn't vote and then bitched about the placings
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
and i dunno, i've never been able to get into the live version of ALS -- it's good, but not amazing like the studio version.
― tylerw, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:49 (twelve years ago) link
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, September 1, 2011 1:44 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark
I think the line has become blurred over the years. Partly it's because it's Coltrane, and he'll get a pass from more conservative critics before, say, Cecil Taylor does. And partly because, as with Ornette, some Cecil, Charlie Parker, etc. etc., it doesn't seem as radical now as it did then.
Fuck if I know why Freddie Hubbard's on it, though.
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:50 (twelve years ago) link
― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, September 1, 2011 12:48 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
what are you contributing exactly -- ?
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:50 (twelve years ago) link
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, September 1, 2011 12:49 PM (42 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
of course i can, sorry i didnt see the deadline but better this than 100 posts of someone saying "GREAT ALBUM!!!"
please to show me where this mysterious "jazz canon" you and you alone have access to is interred, and what it has to say about A Love Supreme then
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:51 (twelve years ago) link
oh shakey i think it's cool deej is giving his opinions. I just wish he had voted is all. Deej knows his jazz. And like everyone else he has his faves and opinions, and it brings good chat to the thread.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:52 (twelve years ago) link
Crouch, for example, has long positioned himself as keeper of the jazz canon flame afaict. should we get Marsalis' opinion on the subject too
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:52 (twelve years ago) link
of course a love supreme is considered a great album but if you listen to the record its not even as good as similar records from the same period, and its not like im alone in making this observation. read any fucking jazz criticism
i dont know why im arguing with shakey who admits on this list to not having heard key artists in the genre then claims to speak w/ authority about trane's best records
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:53 (twelve years ago) link
who admits on this list to not having heard key artists in the genre then claims to speak w/ authority about trane's best records
slow your roll there son
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:54 (twelve years ago) link
Fuck if I know why Freddie Hubbard's on it, though.― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)
― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat)
you dont like freddie??
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:54 (twelve years ago) link
not that anyone needs to know all jazz to speak on it or something but if you're going to nitpick w/ me about this at least have some background in it
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
hey is that a go at me?
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:55 (twelve years ago) link
the issue isn't what I consider to be trane's best records, is this weird opinion you have that A Love Supreme is not routinely acknowledged as his signature album, his "masterpiece" etc.
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
kind of but not really, youve been encouraging other ppl to talk the entire time xp
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, September 1, 2011 12:56 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
my 'weird opinion' is that its not as good as other records hes done although its celebrated that way, of course i realize that like j dilla and burial fans rep for 'a love supreme' 1st, its the outsider's fav record. in some cases this coincides w/ some legendary record making (KoB), other times it feels like a success of marketing (ALS)
― D-40, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:57 (twelve years ago) link
49 Horace Silver - Song for My Father (1964) 1228 Points, 12 voteshttp://www.geardiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Horace-Silver-Song-for-My-Father.jpghttp://open.spotify.com/album/4LEnATSqKeANOJ0mLUAuCE
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:58 (twelve years ago) link
You know what it is, D-40? You're being weirdly nitpicky about something you weren't even a part of (you didn't actually vote). Also, your opinions on many the choices (dismissing "harp" or "outsider" jazz as less worthy than your muddled idea of Real Jazz) are plain irritating & reductionist.
― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, 1 September 2011 17:59 (twelve years ago) link
well deej i'm just not particularly great at articulating my opinions so rather than waffle on with meaningless bullshit I prefer to keep posts short and let those who can do it, leaving me to enjoy reading said posts.
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:00 (twelve years ago) link
it's always hilarious when people get preemptively mad about what they predict will win a poll
― lil dawg (some dude), Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
my 'weird opinion' is that its not as good as other records hes done although its celebrated that wayi mean, that's fine, your opinion! i pretty much love everything coltrane did 1960-65, so love supreme fits in there -- it's fantastic. but it's just part of an incredible period for that band.
― tylerw, Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
and yes pretty much all my posts are trying to stimulate other posts by better posters. I've been doing it like this for 10 years now, thought everyone got used to,accepted & ignored it by now :)
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
it's more the OTT hyperbole that grates. I mean saying that A Love Supreme has "no case" to be made or is "not even close" to being his best album is ridiculous. tons of people have made the case. I'm not one of them, but that doesn't matter.
― I can feel it in my spiritual hat (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:02 (twelve years ago) link
anyway glad we could turn this into YET ANOTHER thread about deej lol
some dude > that's what makes for good reading on a poll results thread though. I love people making predictions on the results
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:03 (twelve years ago) link
no no its deej's opinions we're talking about.
I don't think there's anything wrong with using superlatives to talk about music. Not everyone is a wanna-be music critic who feels the need to write seven page essays on the wonders of their preferred music. Music is a visceral experience.
― The Not Liking Radiohead Awards (Turangalila), Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:04 (twelve years ago) link
This thread is gonna be an often-referenced archive for a long time, be nice! I'm in SF, about to take a run to Amoeba and probably buy way too many jazz albums. Don't know whether to thank this poll or curse it.
― Fastnbulbous, Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:05 (twelve years ago) link
depends on what you buy
― Armand Schaubroeck Ratfucker, Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:05 (twelve years ago) link
It doesn't take a background in jazz to see that deej's logic is not just flawed but nonexistent. First you say that the album is considered by proper jazz heads to be a lesser work, and then when people point out contradictory instances you a) say that they're misreading you, and b) refuse to point to anyone who actually says it is a lesser work.
― emil.y, Thursday, 1 September 2011 18:06 (twelve years ago) link