the band that best addrsses 'Irishness' and the subject of Ireland

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besides being irish, what do My bloody valentine do to address the subject of irishness and ireland? ughhh.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 05:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

yeah, and Bush... WTF!

― Debito (Debito), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 05:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

the best U2 album seems to mostly be about america.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 05:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

U2 is a bit suspect. They're not provincial enough.

― Debito (Debito), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 05:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

i saw "the commitments" on cable this afternoon.

― fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 05:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

― Jacob (Jacob), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 05:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

The (formerly "Irish") Rovers, of course. Or maybe Johnny Johnson and The Shamrocks.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 07:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Sawdoctors - "N17"

― Michael B, Tuesday, 18 May 2004 07:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

Boney M. Billy Bragg. Orbital.

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 07:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

Well, who are the band that best addresses "Swissness", and the subject of Switzerland?
Is Ireland really worthy of this kind of debate in this day and age? We arguably have little to distinguish us by now from a dozen other small, high-tech first world nations. An Irish band who were truly addressing the burning issues of their country would be writing songs about foreign holidays, house prices and hospital waiting lists, because they're the kind of things that people here are concerned with.
U2 haven't written a song about Ireland for twenty years, and the Pogues' self-concious Oirishiness - a dichotomy of boozy raucousness and the melancholy of the hopeless alcoholic - was only ever representative of a small facet of the national character.

― Palomino (Palomino), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 08:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

Geez Palomino, way to take the fun out of this thread.

― Debito (Debito), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 08:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

None of them.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 08:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

― Michael B, Tuesday, 18 May 2004 09:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

and they're German!

― Michael B, Tuesday, 18 May 2004 09:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

THE UNDERTONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 09:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

Microdisney and The Fatima Mansions quite obviously own this thread.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 09:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Well, who are the band that best addresses "Swissness", and the subject of Switzerland?"

NEUTRAL milk hotel! *winks*

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 09:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

> Geez Palomino, way to take the fun out of this thread.

Bah, humbug.

― Palomino (Palomino), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 09:57 (9 years ago) Permalink

really who gives a shit?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 10:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

correct.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 10:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

itr's the thing i hate abt irish music more than anything else - its obsession w/ self/ makes it horribly parochial and popular with people hung up on "the old country". drives me nuts.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 10:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

That's interesting DS: do you think it differs much from Jamaican music (and music of the Jamaican diaspora) in the 'self-obsessed' and 'harking back to the old country' stakes?

(Possible answer: JA music seems to be on a tip of continuously re-telling / mythologising the present day...).

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 11:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

well there was a thread abot englishness with this exact title and this thread was just meant to be a partner/response to that (it got a lot of lengthy responses and none of these "who cares?" ones, but y'know, i wouldn't want dave to miss another opportunity to be a crushing humourless bore so carry on i guess)

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 11:32 (9 years ago) Permalink

and the actual answer is: warlords of pez

― Conor (Conor), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 11:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

the wolfe tones, hairy, wankers.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 11:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ha ha

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 11:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

well, tim i guess as i'm not in any way shape or form jamaican i can tolerate it better. being 75 percent irish, this is closer to home for me and i find it very boring. the main thing is that i don't find a similar cloying romanticism in jamaican music harking back to the past...

oh for the days of coffin ships and potato famines.

ps kilian, thank you, you lovely man, you.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 11:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

try living here.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

to be honest, ronan, i reckon liverpool, with its large diasporic population, new york, boston and place like that are worse. and btw kilian, athough it may be "crushingly boring" a huge amount of the bands quoted here are not even irish, its exactly this... 2nd, 3rd and 4th generational whining.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Not even Irish"

Roy Keane to thread!

There's plenty of romantic sentimentalisation of Africa in Jamaican music though DS, yes? So it's really the Irishness which you find cloying?

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

(My ultimate point I suppose being that if people want to self-identify with racial / national / cultural pasts - maybe partial, maybe invented - then that's fine by me and I tend to be uncomfortable with the excoriation of same.)

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

I agree, unless it's the House of Pain.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

"POGUES TO THREAD, WTF YOU GUYS??"

Ummmm, did The Pogues actually reflect the genuine experience of Irishness and being Irish or did they (and similarly The Men They Couldn't Hang) not in actual fact reflect the (inevitably somewhat distorted and romanticised) impression of Irishness and being Irish that you'd get from growing up (as most of them did) as 2nd generation Irish immigrants listening to their ex-pat. parents sentimental reminiscences about their home land?

Please note I'm not trying to detract from the Pogues in any way, merely to identify them as what they were - a bunch of London punks with Irish parents.

Stiff Little Fingers and Saw Doctors OTM.

How about The Chieftains, The Dubliners, Christy Moore?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

oh well, as ever sorry for having an opinion. off to drink guinness and eat champ in memory of my forefathers

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

Top o' th' moring to ya Dave

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Top o' th' morning to ya Dave

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

Oops

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

2nd generation Irish immigrants listening to their ex-pat. parents sentimental reminiscences about their home land?

... this is kind of my point: that's been one of the key experiences of 'Irishness' for a long time, hasn't it?

Dave, I was trying to make conversation because I'm interested in this subject: I wasn't trying to shut you up.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

okay, can i say that i don't find irishness cloying in itself? what i do find annoying is the continual romanticizing of a place many of said "irish music"'s fans (and practitioners in the case of the pogues etc) have, at best, a tenuous connection with. i find all this "celtic consciousness" stuff insufferable. it irritates the crap out of me. that said, i do think shane mcgowan was a great lyricist (but of course, he would be wouldn't he, son of the that mylesians that he is). i don't get this from bhangra or dancehall.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't like the sectarian connection.

Christy Moore is a good nomination, for this thread. Probably the best I can think of.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

What do you mean by "sectarian connection"? You mean The Pogues' sectarian connection? If so, agreed.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yes. And Wolfe Tones etc.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 12:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

That Petrol Emotion an' all

― Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 13:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

"... this is kind of my point: that's been one of the key experiences of 'Irishness' for a long time, hasn't it?"

I dunno about "Irishness" - it seems to be a basic element of human nature that people of all nationalities become increasingly anxious to develop and cling to an increasingly romantic and idealised version of their homeland the longer they're away from the dreary realities of it, yes.

I imagine that if I were forced to spend the rest of my days on some horrible Caribbean island right now, within a couple of years I'd probably start singing mournful songs about how much I miss the joys of driving 'round the M25; the efficiency of South West Trains; the exemplary levels of cleanliness, service and excellent cuisine at the Moto services on the M4; and the wonderfully refreshing rain that occasionally interrupts the glorious sunshine than glints enticingly off the abandoned shopping trolleys that have been dumped in the Kennet canal.

There again....

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

The real actual answer is: The Moustaches

― Graeme (Graeme), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Banana Republic", The Boomtown Rats

― Stephen Boyle (SBoyle), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

An Irish band who were truly addressing the burning issues of their country would be writing songs about foreign holidays, house
prices and hospital waiting lists, because they're the kind of things that people here are concerned with.

This makes it sound like Ireland needs a Manic Street Preachers.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

(Also Irish people can be sentimental self-mythologising alcoholics just as well as "Irish" people, possibly more so)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

cf the loudest and most (ahem) impassioned singalong I have heard in a pub being to "Lullaby of New York".

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

singalongs surely are no gauge for anything.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 17:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 24 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

so beautiful...

― scott seward, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 17:08 (4 years ago) Permalink

― scott seward, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 17:19 (4 years ago) Permalink

There's clearly a gap in the market for a band of young(ish) men full of righteous anger spewing venom about falling house prices, the income levy, and the loss of Ranelagh's Michelin star restaurant.

― ecuador_with_a_c, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 19:46 (4 years ago) Permalink

There's clearly a gap in the market for a band of young(ish) men full of righteous anger spewing venom about falling house prices, the income levy, and the loss of Ranelagh's Michelin star restaurant.

or career rebirth for the Thrills, to give vent to the anger of their class....

― sonofstan, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 19:52 (4 years ago) Permalink

I used to play football (soccer) with the lead singer of Primordial when I was a kid. He's one of my best friend's cousins.

― Local Garda, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 22:53 (4 years ago) Permalink

my best mate was introduced to his GF by one of the thrills at a wedding, and subsequently given the use of his posh room to consummate said meeting.

that pic from the youtube primordial is five mins from me.

i got nothin else.

― U2 raped goat (darraghmac), Tuesday, 19 May 2009 23:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

that was actually my dad

seriously tho, first sentence, are you saying your mate slept with guy from primordial's gf? or the dude from the thrills? i saw the thrills in aladdin's on brick lane last thurs. the circle is complete.

― Local Garda, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 23:25 (4 years ago) Permalink

introduced to his own future gf, not a gf of any of the thrills. that i am aware of.

― U2 raped goat (darraghmac), Tuesday, 19 May 2009 23:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

ah okay, now i understand. the dublin indie scene is pretty small. a lot of bands/artists i thought were irredeemably shite turn out to be v nice and good fun and into techno.

― Local Garda, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 23:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

their music still shite tho...imo

― Local Garda, Tuesday, 19 May 2009 23:30 (4 years ago) Permalink

certainly.

― U2 raped goat (darraghmac), Tuesday, 19 May 2009 23:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

Women from the UK/Ireland area have the most soothing songs/voices. This girl, Enya, Leona Lewis, Dolores O'Riordan from the cranberries to name a few.
Just something about celtic women singing that calms the soul.
Jarsia 1 year ago 34

― pizza pizza and cult jam (crüt), Saturday, 28 April 2012 07:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

has never heard Dolores O honk like a sealion on "Zombie" i take it

― seapunk run. run punk run! (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 28 April 2012 12:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

the band ronan was looking for singing about young posh middleclass upwardly mobile ireland (but well aware of cultural nationalism's importance to edge in the celt angle) are probably bell x1 tbh, cf reacharound

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Saturday, 28 April 2012 16:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

but i mean the chieftains were suckin diesel last night on jools holland and if we can go back to the dubliners, those are good answers too.

― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Saturday, 28 April 2012 16:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

just think of all those douce celtic sirens like sinead o'connor, jessie j and the melifluous cerys from catatonia

― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Saturday, 28 April 2012 16:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Saturday, 28 April 2012 16:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

NPR says they deliver “a brilliant co-mingling of electronic music and anthemic pop rock”.[4] The band is named after the Bell X-1, the first supersonic aircraft in history.

― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Saturday, 28 April 2012 16:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

co-mingling

― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Saturday, 28 April 2012 16:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

The Clancy Brothers with Tommy Makem

― Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Saturday, 28 April 2012 20:46 (1 year ago) Permalink

They're called The Hairy Bowsies*, and their songs tackle Perfidious Albion (Ye Dirty English Bastards) and sacred cows such as the 1916 Rising (The Craic We Had The Day We Died For Ireland) and the Potato Famine (Jaysus, The Spuds Aren't Lookin' The Best).

I thought this was Ding Dong Denny O'Reilly, one of whose tunes is reputed to feature the lovely lyric "Flow river flow / fuck off to the sea".

I understand that the same person was also behind Tony St. James and the Joshua Trio.

― The New Dirty Vicar, Saturday, 28 April 2012 21:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

an old website: http://indigo.ie/~lwp/dingdong/

― The New Dirty Vicar, Saturday, 28 April 2012 21:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

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