I'm sorry but Paul Simon is so overrated

great thread

This man is so overrated it's pathetic!!

generally speaking when someone drags "it's pathetic!!" or some variation thereof into their criticism it's because they are---or have the critical faculties of---a fourteen year old venting on facebook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnXGBgMBpsI

ITT: You can't say "___ sucks" anymore, it's a weird internet rule.

I will say, having seen both Cohen and Simon live in recent years, that Cohen may be the only great living singer/songwriter who may be less of a singer than Simon. Not that it matters, in either case. I'll happily accept Cohen's monotone rumble and Simon's limited but nimble sing-song.

maybe I'm way off base but I do feel like there's this certain quality about Simon where he knows he never really reached the level he wanted to attain

I remember reading in that David Browne book "Fire & Rain" that Simon didn't feel like he got his due as a songwriter and was always chasing the kind of respect that Dylan got. Also it pissed him off that people gave Garfunkel most of credit for BOTW even though Simon wrote it. And when he wanted to go solo Clive Davis basically told him that he wasn't well known enough to be a success on his own.

yeah PS does not seem very humble or earnest. not that it detracts from his music.

feel like simon never quite got the props of those other dudes cause hes not you know cool

legendarily one of the nastiest sob's as a person in music. that said, i like not love s&g, love the early solo records, and hate graceland with the passion of a billion white hot suns

really? Post some nasty SOB stories!

Has he done anything to top this?

there's always that Los Lobos story

I'm not sure I believe Los Lobos, or rather, I'm not sure they understood the danger of working with a singer-songwriter.

I assume every famous person is a bit of an SOB, but Simon doesn't seem any worse than most.

Certainly do not understand comparisons to Leonard Cohen who in my view is legend. I guess I am rather bewildered at how someone behind classics like Bridge Over Troubled Water could sink to the lows that he has over the years. I disagree that he seems to know he hasn't reached the level of his contemporaries. From what I can tell he seems to believe in his own pretension.

"believing in your own pretensions" is tautological, isn't it?

I hate BOTW tbh.

I've increasingly come to believe the Los Lobos story is bullshit at worst, a misunderstanding at best. Lot least because Simon made a concerted effort to actual credit many of his African collaborators on that album:

"The Boy in the Bubble" (Forere Motloheloa/Paul Simon) - 3:59
"I Know What I Know" (General MD Shirinda/Simon) - 3:13
"Gumboots" (Lulu Masilela/Jonhjon Mkhalali/Simon) - 2:44
"Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes" (Joseph Shabalala/Simon) - 5:45
"Homeless" (Shabalala/Simon) - 3:48

If he wasn't going to fuck the Africans, why would he fuck Los Lobos?

was last night the first time you've ever seen a gray-haired old music icon playing lesser new material on TV? xpost

Yes, probably tautological. Can someone please tell the Los Lobos story.

los lobos always sounded like a bunch of whiners and their music is sort of bad.

http://www.jambase.com/Articles/9391/LONE-WOLF-HANGIN%27-WITH-STEVE-BERLIN/0

Retroactively, he had to give songwriting credit to all the African guys he stole from that were working on it and everyone seemed to forget.

uh he gave them songwriting credit on the original album!

So we go back in the second day wondering why we're there. It was ridiculous. I think David starts playing "The Myth of the Fingerprints," or whatever he ended up calling it. That was one of our songs. That year, that was a song we started working on By Light of the Moon. So that was like an existing Lobos sketch of an idea that we had already started doing. I don't think there were any recordings of it, but we had messed around with it. We knew we were gonna do it. It was gonna turn into a song. Paul goes, "Hey, what's that?" We start playing what we have of it, and it is exactly what you hear on the record. So we're like, "Oh, ok. We'll share this song."

This may be true but I blame the band's naivete.

lol i dont really care if paul simon is an awful human being but the way lobos bro tells that story it makes no sense at all

I think David starts playing "The Myth of the Fingerprints," or whatever he ended up calling it. That was one of our songs.

aggrieved studio musicians are the art of pretend forgetfulness

I just find it difficult to believe that a band whose reputation was already as high as Los Lobos would walk into a Lenny Waronker-arranged studio collaboration with Paul fucking Simon and not understand the consequences.

if it's any consolation, Lobos bro, "The Myth of Fingerprints" is one of the album's weaker songs.

this is my fav part:

We go into the studio, and he had quite literally nothing. I mean, he had no ideas, no concepts, and said, "Well, let's just jam." We said, "We don't really do that." When we jam, we'll switch instruments. Dave will play drums, I'll play something. We don't really jam. Especially in that era. Louie will be the first to tell you this – he was made to play drums. They forced him to play drums. He's not really a drummer by trade. He's never practiced a moment in his life. Not once in his life did he sit down at the drums because of his love for drumming. The other three guys made him play drums in the early days, so he sort of became drummer by default. He hates playing the instrument, I think.

wahhhh they FORCED him to play drums!

if it's any consolation, Lobos bro, "The Myth of Fingerprints" is one of the album's weaker songs.

― livin in my own private Biden hole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, August 7, 2011 10:08 AM (11 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ehh it's obviously tossed off but the chorus lyrics slay me

I mean there's no doubt about it
It was the myth of pretend forgetfulness

we jammed, which was a horrible idea that produced a classic album, he stole our songs that sound nothing like los lobos but a lot like paul simon, gave credit to everyone else he worked with, made a dude play drums, we couldve sued him but still havent

I like the way he keeps saying "favor to the family"

also the little detail about paul simon mispronouncing 'zydeco' (even tho he gets it right... ON THE ALBUM)

cause lobos told him is why

lowblows

Fusion.
The intermingling of two musics.
I say it's the music of the future
And, hey, I oughta know.
Have you heard my latest album?
It's a masterpiece of fusion,
Just a masterpiece of fusion
If I do say so myself.
A true collaboration of the heaviest musicians on the planet.

That's Sakimoto playing the bamboo flute.
He's a monster.
And Big Joseph Nabuma on mbira.
Check it out.
And over on cabasa...who is that on cabasa?
Oh yeah, that's the guy who drove me in from the airport.
I forget his name, but he's a monster, too.
We're all just monsters of--

Fusion.
We're intermingling our musics
In a welter of ethnic confusion.
(Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe.
Anh anh.
Zimbabwe, zimbabwe.
Anh anh.
Savuca! Loodloodloodloodloodloodloodloo!)

This pretty tune was written by Hans Leo Hassler
In 1599.
I wrote some words and changed about three notes.
Now ASCAP says it's mine.
I love constructing albums
From objects that I find,

From all kinds of folk riffs
That are just sort of out there.
Nobody owns them. They're in public domain.
And the foreign musicians
Who play those folk riffs,
Well, they're just grist for my fevered brain.

Mama, don't take my copyright.
Gimme that folk riff copyright.
Mama, don't take my copyright from me.
There've been slurs and innuendoes.
There've been nasty little comments.
I don't bother to respond to them.
They roll right off my back.
I'm well aware that there's an element
You could call "exploitation"
In the way that I appropriate the cultures of these peoples
For my own commercial purposes.

But everyone who works for me gets
Credit.
And royalties
And Grammys
And a chance to ride to stardom on my coattails, lay lay lay.
But, hey, let's just remember who's the genius here,
Who is the Master of--

Fusion?
Fusion.
It's a matter of "Finders Keepers."
Cause there ain't no copyrights in
Fusion.
Fusion.
We're all just ripping off each other
In a jungle of ethical con-Fusion.
And having a hell of a lot of fun.
I'm having a hell of a lot of
Ballpark.
I'm thinking this song is in the
Ballpark... (fade)

That was ripped off from an idea I had but never wrote down.

I could never figure out what Los Lobos was doing on that album, anyway.

ILM is feeling like ILM circa 2004, lately.

frankly i just dont get people who dont like graceland.

xpost cool I love c.2004 ILM

maybe start a new board, "ILM Classic"

Re: Los Lobos: Tite Curet Alonso, a greater songwriter than Simon, with a much better reputation as a person, also complained about collaborating with Simon on the Capeman. I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.

maybe start a new board, "ILM Classic"

― swaguirre, the wrath of basedgod (bernard snowy), Sunday, August 7, 2011 11:15 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

can i play Alex in NYC if the original article isn't available?

x-post

Acutally, he didn't really say anything devastating about Simon, just said that Simon wasn't really looking for a collaborator when he enlisted Curet Alonso's help in doing research for the Capeman. I don't know if he ever said that Simon had suggested otherwise to begin with.

that thing he did with eno is the only simon album i have that i don't love (there's something about how the vocals are mixed so high)

what kills it for me is the production on his albums, hearts and bones and rhythm of the saints especially are so sick. the sound of the guitar on hearts and bones (he's also a really interesting and underrated guitar player i think). one thing i like about him is that his best work is his more mature work. like he got better. so many musicians blow their wad, but he obviously spent a lot of his time w/ art garfunkel kindof just focussed on songwriting (stuff like cecelia is more the exception and where you get an inkling of where he might be going with all of this) but his songwriting style is just so *crafted.* his lyrics have a short story quality about them, they're more about observed detail than strong images, although his descriptions are really original ("the Mississippi delta was shining like a national guitar"). i mean i could go on, he works well with collaborators, the south african musicians on graceland, the singer on spirit voices (and the way that works as the spirit voice of the song is so ghostly and beautiful) which is funny in light of people saying that he is really anxious about his reputation, i think his best work is just so comfortably masterful. he lets other people shine. i love the way he uses choirs and backup singers, the "oooohs" on hearts and bones just sound incredible. like he has this way of just lightly touching and orchestrating everything around him. he always seems quietly in control.

plax otm

also simon is a better lyricist than stupid ol leonard cohen

lol this is up on some Budweiser-is-better-than-Chateau-Latour stuff

(he's also a really interesting and underrated guitar player i think)

this however is otm. dude can really play. as a lyricist he's maybe the fifteenth best of his generation

as a lyricist he's maybe the fifteenth best of his generation

I love how that initially parses as a diss until you think, hey, 15th of a generation ain't bad!

that first song he did on snl was dope iirc

― J0rdan S., Sunday, August 7, 2011 12:59 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark

this!

Otherwise all I have to say is S&G is essential, I can't do without it.

Guessing this event was too pricey for most NY ilmers (or they think Paul Simon is so overrated)

i'm sorry but wynton marsalis is so overrated

agree

i watced the bbc under african skies docu and it was dope as hell

Thread of missing Alamac