200 best albums of the 20th century

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Bah! It is all marketing...

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 13 September 2002 15:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

No, I thought of that but it doesn't work on that level either. Bird, Diz and Louis would not be high up most people's list of music offering modern pop fans an easy entry to jazz. Presumably they are too "important" to leave out. But if importance is a criterion, well, you know, Tindersticks instead of Art Tatum? (And so on........ I'm sure you can make up your own list).

― ArfArf, Friday, 13 September 2002 16:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

The jazz to pop ration has absolutely NOTHING on the classical to pop ratio.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 September 2002 16:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

pop/classical = 200/0 = computer crash

They said 20th century, but they didn't mean it.

― dleone (dleone), Friday, 13 September 2002 16:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

Bird, Diz and Louis would not be high up most people's list of music offering modern pop fans an easy entry to jazz

That's true. Maybe their angle is more along the lines of, "Include enough of the jazz canon in order to lend an aura of credibility to our pop/rock picks."

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 13 September 2002 16:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think it's a pretty good list. I don't think I've ever seen Palace or Wu-Tang show up on a "best of the century" list before.

― Clay, Friday, 13 September 2002 17:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh come on. The Stone Roses' debut isn't even on there.

― Rahul Kamath (Rahul Kamath), Friday, 13 September 2002 17:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

VIOLENT FEMMES VIOLENT FEMMES

This is my new favourite list of all time.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 13 September 2002 17:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Joan: Blimey, you're right. Can it be possible that us other countries are so in the shadow of the mighty English Speaking Nations (or, eh, USA & UK at least) that not only do we compile "best of" lists featuring almost nothing but music from those countries, but also the only non-English choices we make are from artists that are "popular" in those countries (.i.e. Salif Keita, Kraftwerk, Caetano Veloso) ?

― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 13 September 2002 17:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

That list is about right, (YAY Prefab Sprout)

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 13 September 2002 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

you can't take this stuff seriously...

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 13 September 2002 19:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

No lists are good unless they're mine.

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 13 September 2002 20:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

would it have all radiohead albums Melissa?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 13 September 2002 20:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

in the top 10 that is.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 13 September 2002 20:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

If I was being honest with myself, there'd be 2 in the top 10, and 1 in the rest of the top 100. If I felt guilty and self-conscious about it, there'd be 1 in the top 10, and 2 in the rest of the top 100. If I felt really into Radiohead one day, there'd be 3 in the top 10, and 1 in the rest of the top 100. But NEVER 5 in the top 100, and never 4 in the top 10. DO YOU SEE?

Ahem. Anyway, my list would rock, regardless of the Radiohead inclusions.

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 13 September 2002 20:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

any list that's organised alphabetically with "The" bands in the T section sucks

― ddd, Friday, 13 September 2002 20:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't like it when influential music mags say something is "The Best" as its a fact. It's their opinion...It is the very essence of rockism...Tie down the person who wrote this, like Sun Ra in Space Is The Place, and force them to listen to 1000 hours of Borbetomagus through headphones at full volume...

― brg30 (brg30), Friday, 13 September 2002 22:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

''It's their opinion...It is the very essence of rockism...Tie down the person who wrote this, like Sun Ra in Space Is The Place, and force them to listen to 1000 hours of Borbetomagus through headphones at full volume...''

brg b-but you'd kill that person...cool!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 14 September 2002 09:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't like it when influential music mags say something is "The Best" as its a fact. It's their opinion...It is the very essence of rockism

Could we have a ruling on this use of "rocksim" by one of the in-house experts on its meaning? (I have a feeling the answer is no, we cannot.)

― DeRayMi, Saturday, 14 September 2002 10:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't like it when influential music mags say something is "The Best" as its a fact. It's their opinion...It is the very essence of rockism.

Nah, it's just honesty. No matter how much ILM might go on about subjectivity and all that, the truth of the matter is that we all secretly think that what we consider to be the best stuff actually IS the best stuff, and that anyone who disagrees must be TOTALLY INSANE!

― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 14 September 2002 12:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

rockist: using the word "album" and picking 200 rather than say 201 (yay melissa!! YES I SEE!!)
not rockist: making ridiculous claims for a list
(making such lists is an activity very busily undertaken by seemingly rockist-skewed orgs, it's true, but the activity has become so seamlessly unending that it speaks more to their uneasy near-resigned awareness of the reality-pressure of other ways to hear, see and see, than to any unquestioned confidence in the claims being made)

(dr vick told me this compulsive repetition thing producing the opposite to the effect intended is called "cryptamnesia", but we were zipping along on her motorbike at the time so i may have misunderstood)

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 14 September 2002 12:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha "ONE of the experts" => it is the schleswig-holstein question of pop!!

― mark s (mark s), Saturday, 14 September 2002 12:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

These things are always unspeakable (and I was less than optimistic about Spain's most influential rock mag), but I have the majority of these albums (106/200) so I can't complain too much - except there is no Mott, Lexicon Of Love, Jerry Lee Lewis Live At The Star Club, Al Green, Underworld, Louis Prima...

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 14 September 2002 13:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

this list ain't bad as these things go - if you're cheesed off must be cos the ones you don't know on it are better than your alternate choices - ha! ha!

― Paul (scifisoul), Saturday, 14 September 2002 14:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

um......

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 14 September 2002 14:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

so the list-gods have passed their latest 'more predictable unanimity' edict. zzzzzzzzzzzz.

― angelo (angelo), Sunday, 15 September 2002 06:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

Why get so vein-burstingly annoyed by these lists and things like the Mercury Prize? It's just a small group's subjective opinion, in this case a pretty decent one I'd venture, and the nature of consensus means that individual quirky choices are lost in the drift towards the canonical.

I'm going to be in a minority here but sometimes, amidst the desperate clamour for the new, it's nice to be told "here's some older music, it's good stuff". It might be difficult to believe but not everyone picked up on Loveless at the time.

The problem is that canons are self-perpetuating, Trans-Europe Express and There's A Riot Goin' On are passed like a watch from one generation to the next, and it's difficult to explore forgotten avenues simply because there isn't enough time to keep up with what's going on right now. Are there any examples of albums that slipped through the cracks for, say, twenty years or more, that have subsequently been sanctified?

― Mike (mratford), Sunday, 15 September 2002 09:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Are there any examples of albums that slipped through the cracks for, say, twenty years or more, that have subsequently been sanctified?"

The Monkees!!!

― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 15 September 2002 14:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

mark, click:

http://sdam.com/pseudocool/images/cryptom.gif

― david h (david h), Sunday, 15 September 2002 15:06 (twenty-one years ago) link

cheers david but i *did* ask you not to publish that pic of me and dr vick anywhere

― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 15 September 2002 15:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

you put yr hat on before yr shoes, again.

― david h (david h), Sunday, 15 September 2002 15:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

WOT!?!?!?!? no Throbbing Gristle? :(

― THE MIGHTY RETURNING CRUSADER FATNICK I, Sunday, 15 September 2002 20:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

No Zappa? And This Is Our Music is better than Free Jazz.

Wankers.

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 15 September 2002 22:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Obviously any best ever rock list that excludes Zappa is immediately quite good (something like what Twain wrongly said about a library excluding Jane Austen).

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 16 September 2002 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like this list better:

http://www.sundayherald.com/bestalbums1.shtml

― o. nate (onate), Monday, 16 September 2002 21:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

mike : don't get me wrong, i think lists have their place. and yes, in theory, they're someone's subjective opinion, but reading the one that spawned this thread (as with so many others) leaves me with a feeling that it was compiled after a month-long bout of reading every other list around. how about a bit of dissent, for crissakes (and five token jazz records doesn't count)! i prefer o. nate's list too - it actually seems like it's been put together by a fan and appears GENUINELY subjective. i like that it pisses on accepted list-wisdoms (i.e. the only rem record worth exalting is 'automatic for the people', thou shalt bow eternally to the temple of 'screamdelica' etc etc) and there's actually an EXPLANATION as to why it was included in the first place; there's actually a sense of engagement with the stuff listed. having said that, i probably own more of the stuff listed in the 'top 200' list (on a percentage basis at any rate), but lists that reflect the curiousity we all have about music are far more instructive than anything that just runs with the pack. aren't they?

― angelo (angelo), Monday, 16 September 2002 22:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

Angelo hit on some of the very reasons why I like that Sunday Herald list. There's probably actually more overlap between my collection and the Spanish magazine's list, but the Herald list challenges me and persuades me that I've been missing some great music. It never picks the obvious choice - and yet it reveals a genuine feeling for each record - so you never get the feeling that records were chosen just to be different. Taken as a whole, it makes me think that there is more than one way to listen to popular music and encourages me to widen my own listening.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 13:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Who chose the Sunday Herald list? It looks like one bloke with a Pastels fixation. I sort of agree with your points, o nate. At the same time, however, it's an unsatisfying list. Definitely one for people who say ABBA were rubbish. Kudos for putting "Heathen Earth" at no.2, though. And it's beautifully presented.

― Jeff W, Tuesday, 17 September 2002 13:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's not in order as such. It's a compilation of David Keenan's one-album-a-week columns for the paper. I don't think he's a big fan of ABBA but they weren't on the Spanish list either.

― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 14:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

i just finished reading EVERY SINGLE WORD of the comments on the album list sent by o. nate.
it made me want to run and get some of these albums. it made me want to relisten to some of them and talk about them -royal trux! the pastels! (yeah, i have a fixation, too; everyone should)-. the list is great, but the comments are glorious: passionate and contagious. thanks for the link.

― joan vich (joan vich), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 15:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Sunday Herald list is clearly by someone who spent too much time in the Byres road branch of John Smith (RIP), the Pastels/Big Star?half Japanese trio is the big giveaway.

Having said that any list which features Dusty S, the Dictators and the Kronos Quartet is worth investigating. Though it works best as an alternate route map through the 60's and 70's.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 17 September 2002 15:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

two weeks pass...

¿Qúé pasa con la música en Español? ¿Qué pasa con la música en otros idiomas que no sean el inglés?hay un montón de lenguas en el mundo. No creo que el monopolio de la música buena sea el inglés, aunque viendo las últimas aportaciones de España a las listas internacionales (aserejé, macarena) no es de extrañar esta lista.

best wishes. Good list. I would say Eric Clapton and Carlos Santana.

― Enrique Avila, Sunday, 6 October 2002 13:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

I followed that list and did comment on the website i think. not one classical recording and that's always a big disadvantage for me but i liked some of the comments as o.nate says that's a big plus and also the fact that he didn't rank anything helps (though he did say that the first velvets rec is his favourite).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 6 October 2002 15:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

No pearl jam????? no "no code", no "vitalogy"???? Is an error???

― In My Tree, Monday, 7 October 2002 21:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Bob Wills inclusion is a nice suprise.

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Monday, 7 October 2002 21:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

My list:
Blink - Enema of the state
Nirvana - Nevermind
Reo Speedwagon - The Ballads
Bon Jovi - Crossroads
Bon Jovi - New Jersey
Bryan Adams - 18 til I die
Garbage - Version 2.0
U2 - Greatest Hits
Madonna - Greatest Hits Volume 1
Linkin Park - Hybrid Theory
Offspring - americana

This i my list like it or not but its mine :)!

― Pablo Porcar, Friday, 11 October 2002 17:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like it. Not the music, but the list.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 11 October 2002 17:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

(actually, there is some good stuff on there)

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 11 October 2002 17:30 (twenty-one years ago) link

yeah, the Bon Jovi ones are classic!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 11 October 2002 18:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

And I'm sure there are some gems on that Madonna collection.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 11 October 2002 18:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

Para mi que te dejas algunos más q importantes como:

Queen - A Kind Of Magic
Queen - Innuendo
George Harrison - All things must pass
Iron Maiden - The number of the Beast
Iron Maiden - Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son
Judas Priest - British Steel
Motorhead - Ace Of Spades

― Javier de la Coruña, Tuesday, 15 October 2002 12:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

Y THIN LIZZY>>>>>>>>>=? PALURDOS!!!!!!!!

― josemartin278@terra.es, Friday, 25 October 2002 17:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

one month passes...

Blink, Linkin Park ja ja ja. U2, Madonna, Bon Jovi, Greatest Hits???!!! Queen??? are you sure? Well, but are you sure A Kind Of Magic? Iron Maiden, Bruce Dickinson mega heavy rock super star, Yeahhhhh!!! I prefer Killers album. I hate Dickinson and his Heavy Metal topic. Ace of Spades is great, but in my opinion Overkill is better.
Men, oh men, what about: Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Gene Vincent, Dick Dale, The Trashmen, Chocolate Watchband, The Seeds, 13th Floor Elevators, Count Five, The Music Machine, The Zombies, Left Banke, Blues Magoos, HP Lovecraft, Spirit, Flaming Groovies, Hawkwind, Black Sabbath, Blue Cheer, Radio Birdman, Misfits, Damned, The Cramps, Bad Brains, Youth Of Today, 7 Seconds, Hard Ons, Bad Religion, Turbonegro, Sepultura, Jane's Addiction, Faith No More, Autechre, Add N to (X)... and more and more...
Lists suck. Lists reduce. Lists for nothing. Lists for clean my ass. List for oficialists. Lists for "Wellthinkings". Lists for RockDeLux magazine.
Sorry for my english.

― FreaKZ, Saturday, 7 December 2002 16:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Merzbox clearly dominates a large portion of this list.

― ian johnson, Saturday, 7 December 2002 19:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

one month passes...

And "Ten" of Pearl Jam. Where is it?

― A Pearl Jam's fan, Tuesday, 14 January 2003 09:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

Where's Tom "The Rebel Is In" Goddamn Petty?

― Spinning Magnet, Tuesday, 14 January 2003 09:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

two weeks pass...

menos "varios" y más PEARL JAM "TEN", THE BEATLES "WHITE ALBUM", U2 "POP", MANIC STREET PREACHERS "A DESIGN FOR LIFE" TOM WAITS "CLOSING TIME" Y The best of Chet Baker sing

las B.S.O no cuentan ?, where are the O.M.P.?

― midnight cowboy, Wednesday, 29 January 2003 15:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

nine months pass...

I've just found this list looking for the record of Jacques Brel. And I'm shocked about the absence of CARLOS GARDEL. It's not just a list of authors, there's Elvis there, it's OK, he has to be there, but what about Gardel? Tango is something more than a stereotype, it is genuine popular culture of the XXth century, as much as the blues, though it has not been as influential, mainly because it belongs to the spanish speaking world. I'm shocked because Rockdelux belongs to the same world, and has consciously ignored it, as something demodé, regardless of its intrinsical value.

― Málaga Virgen, Sunday, 2 November 2003 03:06 (twenty years ago) link

three weeks pass...

pretty much canonic.they pick the more influential artists (in my opinion) with one or two records and their choices aren´t always the more obvious ones, so congratulations. I have 41 of them.
And yeah....uhh...I am one of those who likes to read these lists.

― Francisco José Pires, Friday, 28 November 2003 21:25 (twenty years ago) link

The few from each approach is hopeless. David Bowie and The Beatles clearly have made more than two albums each that belong in such a list.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Friday, 28 November 2003 22:24 (twenty years ago) link

I disagree. I wouldn't put a single bowie or beatles album in a top 200. If multiple albums per artist were allowed, i wouldn't even put them in a top 500...

MMT might come close though.

― Michael Dubsky, Saturday, 29 November 2003 00:44 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...

Wher the hell is KISS?You put assholes like Metallica!I think you should put KISS' Alive! , Psycho Circus or similar.Idont see Deep Purple's In Rock.Ihate metal,ROCK rules!

Love Rusty Blade

― Rusty Blade, Friday, 16 January 2004 17:49 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...

I think this (the RDL) is the best list I've read so far. I don't mean that I agree 100% on the selection but just compare it with the Rolling Stone's, the Q's and the NME's. Also look and the 90's list and name one serious omission: OK, maybe Portishead. I know many may be pissed about Radiohead not being there but not me.

I also like a few things like The Beach Boys on top of The Beatles and VU on top of them all. I think compilations and greatest hits should have been omited though.

― daavid (daavid), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 22:34 (twenty years ago) link

two years pass...

All the BEATLES CD S AND MOST OF NEIL YOUNGS STUFF , call me old but have a alittle listen to em .

― ron kavanagh, Friday, 12 May 2006 11:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Although these lists are way stoopid, I don't mind this one, except
no ac/dc? I guess the absence of Radiohead makes up for it.

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Friday, 12 May 2006 12:21 (seventeen years ago) link

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