Ashlee Simpson 'Bittersweet World'

Am I the only person who thinks the expression, "I was invisible" is completely played in music? I think the sentiment is done much better here http://youtube.com/watch?v=K1AbxBrr8A8 (though of course this is Broadway transposed onto film and maybe pop gets a pass for rearticulating the same cliche over and over and over again).

Possibly the missing third term here is Pink

True. Though I think Ashlee got away with doing what Pink has been trying to do since M!ssundaztood nearly effortlessly, and she certainly gets away with going frivolous with less effort than Pink does in "U and UR Hand," say, which is still one of the more overworked (and unsuccessful) variations on the Max/Luke "Since U Been Gone" thing. Which doesn't make it bad by a longshot, but that's a pretty high standard...

Ashlee has it both ways -- frivolousness and earnestness -- in a way that Pink can't because she seemingly fails on BOTH fronts at the same time. Which also makes Pink more interesting to me in a train-wreck sorta way, but I always listen to what she comes up with incredulity at least and a kind of stunned disbelief at most (and you should check out her full album for the times when the stunned disbelief is a major plus -- "I've Got Money Now" -- and a major minus -- maybe "Dear Mr. President"). For the most part the songs that were released as singles don't really nail the schizophrenia I'm hearing (utterly bipolar where Ashlee just kind of ignores the binary, or makes it FUNNY, like in the line Frank quoted from "Love Me for Me") like the rest of the album. (Literal schizoidness in "Leave Me Alone (I'm Lonely)," which is like "Love Me for Me" failing so miserably it's pretty interesting in its own right.)

The funny thing with that Pink album is that I don't "get" any of the singles all of which have become massive and YET I love love love "U + Ur Hand" nearly as much as any "Since U Been Gone" bite (the best of which I think is Marion Raven's astonishing "End Of Me", which is the darkest of them, and Pink's, along with The Veronicas "4eva" which is the frothiest).

I haven't heard Bittersweet World yet but am going to investigate because ironically Tim's on-the-fence evaluation makes it sound as if it's going to hit my spot completely. "I Am Me" though is bloody hard to live up to - I still wish "Dancing Alone" had been a single to this day.

I can understand not liking the sound of Gwen Stefani's voice but saying that Ashlee Simpson is a better singer really just shows that you don't quite grasp the concept of singing.

Ashlee is a decent singer but is, from what I've heard, both very limited in vocal range and inconsistent in vocal production. Gwen doesn't have the biggest range in the world, either, and the sand in her voice is at a much higher frequency than Ashlee's, meaning that where Ashlee purrs, Gwen yelps, but one thing I can say for Gwen, particularly as her career has progressed, is that she is a solid, consistent singer, particularly in arenas where people are notoriously off or out-of-tune like awards show performances (see all of Adam Levine's recent crashes and burns or the lead singer of OneRepublic completely fucking up "Apologize" on American Idol). Also, Gwen has a better sense of phrasing and far superior breath control.

It should also be noted if it hasn't already that Gwen honed her vocal chops singing and touring with an actual band for many years. Ashlee is ultimately just a studio creation and precious little more than that. And that's being generous.

I don't know that that matters; singing is definitely one thing you can hone without being on the road in a band, particularly if you're a solo artist working with session musicians since every time you record and/or tour, you need to recreate the ensemble's synergy anyway.

"It should also be noted if it hasn't already that Gwen honed her vocal chops singing and touring with an actual band for many years. Ashlee is ultimately just a studio creation and precious little more than that. And that's being generous."

Alex, you can always be relied upon to supply the absolute worst reasons for liking or disliking any given piece of music - I salute you for that!

I don't particularly think "consistently staying in tune during award shows" is the best reason to think somebody's a better singer, either -- Though Hi Dere's purr vs. yelp dichotomy is still really interesting, I think. To me, though, Gwen's singing sounds really pinched and cold compared to Ashlee's; I like Gwen okay, but Ashlee is way more emotionally expressive, way more capable of selling a song -- there's just no comparison to my ears. Gwen sounds piddly, even ice-queeny, in comparison. If that means I "don't quite grasp the concept of singing," then fuck it, I guess I don't.

They practically have the exact same voice; Gwen has the higher version, Ashlee has the lower version.

i wish I had enough time to have opinions on this. I really do!

"It should also be noted if it hasn't already that Gwen honed her vocal chops singing and touring with an actual band for many years."

So?

I don't think Ashlee's a good singer. I don't think Bob Dylan is a good singer either. And he's done a lot of touring with actual bands.
--
I always just kind of assume that Ashlee's lyrics will be terrific, but the more I listen to it, this album just doesn't hold up to the first two. There isn't the kind of poetry that you find in songs like "Better Off." The best moments are more silly and fun ("Outta My Head") than profound.

But the bigger problem is that the hooks just aren't that great. Structurally, most of Ashlee's best songs are just to-the-point pop-rock-- nothing earth shattering, but intensely pleasurable. Songs like "Girlfriend" are made greater by the additions of her vocal melodies and lyrics, but they're all built around guitar and synth hooks that would have made good songs on their own.

On this album, the only songs that really leap out to me in that way are Little Miss Obsessive and Outta My Head. Both are absolute classics though, so it's hard to be too disappointed by the album overall.

I don't think Ashlee's a good singer. I don't think Bob Dylan is a good singer either. And he's done a lot of touring with actual bands.

Did you actually just compare Ashlee to Dylan??? I don't even like Dylan and I'm blown away by that.

My point, however, is that like her or not --- Gwen is more of an accomplished musician. She's put in the hours and she can pull it off live. Can Ashlee make the same claim? I fuckin' doubt it.

alex why does it matter if gwen stefani is a better live performer than ashlee? and you're not even a disgruntled musician so why do you care about how many "hours" either of them have put in

I've never seen Gwen live, but Ashlee was great live when I saw her. Natural performer, solid singer, and she was giving hints on her I Am Me tour of her new direction too -- some cabaret stuff and maybe even her cover of "Sweet Dreams." I don't think there's much evidence to prove that Ashlee is a "studio creation," but she's certainly using the studio more obviously on Bittersweet World (see comments on Jim Beanz above).

I don't think that Gwen and Ashlee's personalities (Gwen solo versus Ashlee pre-Bittersweet) are very similar, even if their vocals might technically be the same. But I'm not sure what "technical" even means in pop without prioritizing the sense of personality you get from the voice. (When I told my friend that Kelly Clarkson's "high" money note was an Eb he told me that that wasn't even a high note for an alto, but we weren't really using the same yardstick. I might be misremembering exactly which group of singer he mentioned, but point's the same.)

(I'm also not sure where the "never tours" idea is coming from, but Ashlee's toured with all of her albums.)

"Did you actually just compare Ashlee to Dylan??? I don't even like Dylan and I'm blown away by that."

They're both mediocre singers. That's why I compared them. I'm not saying Ashlee is comparable to Dylan in all ways.

This is strange course of argument for you anyway, because you don't even think that Mariah Carey is a good singer.

When I told my friend that Kelly Clarkson's "high" money note was an Eb he told me that that wasn't even a high note for an alto, but we weren't really using the same yardstick. I might be misremembering exactly which group of singer he mentioned, but point's the same.

Kelly's high money note is a G, which is pretty fucking high when you're belting. These days, every woman out there who is going to call themselves a "singer" needs to be able to hit the Eb on the staff (which is what I assume you're talking about). Most classical mezzo-sopranos still have arias in their rep that take them up to Bb or C.

(Bb or C above the staff, I mean.)

Yeah, I was referring to what I thought was the high note in "Since U Been Gone," but actually I think I was referring to the highest note in the Veronicas'"4ever" (we talked about this at some point on the '06 teenpop thread)...Kelly gets up to the G in "Haunted," I think.

FWIW I think Ashlee hits the Eb in "La La" ("You make me wanna LA la")...not sure if Gwen tends to go that high, but then neither does Ashlee.

She hits the G in "Since U Been Gone". (She also has severe problems doing it live.)

Ohhhh, wait, I forgot about that part (after "you had your chance you blew it" etc.) (duh).

(I was thinking of the hook, which only gets as high as C)

She hits a D on the "yeah, yeah".</lolmusicnerd>

It's too bad that so many of the smart people decamped from ilX in late 2005, apparently deciding in their unconscious that this board was no longer worth saving, and by their departure helping to make that decision into a fact.

That was me four days ago. Reading it now it seems really obnoxious. Let's just say that when I wrote it I was feeling isolated and under attack, and sour towards some people who really did not deserve it. Which doesn't mean that some things haven't spun badly wrong on ilX over the years, but that I should remember not to underestimate people.

are you guys serious.

Serious about what? Not purposely provoking, just honestly curious.

Because if you mean 'serious about thinking this is worthy of discussion' than yeah. It's an interesting album and a decent listen, both on its own and in contrast to Ashlee's old sound. It hasn't clicked with me personally the same way Autobiography did, but that's just me.

Besides that, there doesn't seem to be a uniform claim being made with regards to the value of Bittersweet World, just an attempt to engage with it, which seems unobjectionable. I mean...it's music, right? And thus, fair game.

I like "Outta My Head" a lot, haven't heard the rest of teh album ("Little Miss Obsessive" is kind of awful), but yeah.. such a wordy thread on an Ashlee Simpson album seems kind of like.. I dunno.

Some things aren't meant to be analyzed to this extent

Welcome to ILM circa 2002.

(I kind of agree with you, esp. re: Ashlee Simpson, but I will take practically any opportunity I see to give an opinion on someone's voice.)

I like "Outta My Head" a lot, haven't heard the rest of teh album ("Little Miss Obsessive" is kind of awful), but yeah.. such a wordy thread on an Ashlee Simpson album seems kind of like.. I dunno.

-- The Brainwasher, Thursday, May 29, 2008

I'm curious, The Brainwasher, why do you think that Ashlee Simpson doesn't deserve to be discussed at length?

IN DEPTH.

Change one mind, CHANGE THE WORLD

I dont really know how to answer that without this turning into a whole longwinded argument about rockism or some shit like that. I just think if Ashlee Simpson read this thread she'd be like "wtf"

No one would bat an eyelid about this level of discussion or a Britney or Gwen thread. I'm not sure what the difference is really.

I would kind of bat an eye. I don't feel like subtext was a huge concern for any of them until recently.

ctrl-f: "kenna" = nothing. wtf?

wait waht

xpost

This is a miniscule number of words on Ashlee compared to some other convos I've been in. Miniscule. But also this is a meta discussion that feels like old territory. One reason to talk about the album is none of us here seems quite sure what's going on with it.

Anyway, as per voice, I think that Ashlee scores high on "plays well with others," or more accurately, "gets others to play well with her." Does that make her a good singer? I don't know if she could be viable without the modern recording studio (which doesn't mean some of her live clips on YouTube aren't a blast), but then I don't know how Sinatra or Jagger would have done without a microphone. (And I'm not saying she has either of those singers' originality.)

“Outta My Head (Ay Ya Ya)”

Single by Ashlee Simpson
from the album Bittersweet World
Released February 11, 2008
April 20, 2008 (iTunes)
May 19, 2008 (CD)
Format Digital Download, cd single
Recorded 2007
Genre Pop rock, electropop
Length 3:38
Label Geffen Records
Writer(s) Ashlee Simpson, King Logan, Jerome Harmon, Santi White, Kenna
Producer Timbaland, King Logan, Jerome Harmon

that explains a lot

lol Kenna AND Santogold! I need to hear this (again; I think I heard it once but wasn't paying attention).

my problem with her is that i've seen her in interviews

i know it "shouldn't" matter but her whole steez when she talks just makes my skin crawl

haha at brainwasher lurching in and proving frank's point just as he rescinded it! wow i expected better though i've no idea why.

i don't know why anyone thinks ashlee would go wtf at a thread about her music any more than, i dunno, mia or radiohead or the hold steady or whatever indie losers are currently ilm favourites, i have no idea.

when will you lamers learn that it ain't about 'rockism'/'popism' blah bullshit zzz, it's about wanting to talk about a great album that people like. oh wvs, bye again, wasn't worth coming back for this at all.

One thing I can't seem to get past...why did she name the album after a cliche from the worst song on the album? (Precedents for this?) Pretty sure every other song title would have been better. (Actually, I'm thinking she shoulda gone with the original insane cover and title, Color Outside the Lines.)

http://tommy2.net/2008/ashleesimpsonbw.jpg

("Autobiography" and "I Am Me" are at least provocative, and more appropriate to the respective albums.)

shut up lex

my problem with her is that i've seen her in interviews

This can definitely be a problem. Also a problem for Santogold, if for completely different reasons. But I don't think "boring and kind of vapid in interviews" is enough of a reason to think she's not in control of any of the music.

"Outta My Head"

Vocal production by Jim Beanz, who did a lot on Blackout and Welcome To The Dollhouse, and I'll have to figure out to what effect.

I think Logan's and Harmon's beats are terrific, the tone deliberately cracked and thin.

She can be a deer in headlight in interviews, and goes to giggle as a default mode. But Tracer, you need to get ahold of the first season of the reality show.

I really don't like this, there's a half decent pop record lurking in there somewhere but the whole stiffness of the sound really bugs me. There's a decent pop record lurking in there somewhere but it's like all personality has been systematically sanded away.

There's a richness in her voice in Boys that's just totally lacking elsewhere. If she sounds this bored how can she expect anyone else to be entertained?

Matt did you ever hear I Am Me? A much better record in my opinion.

I don't think I've gone back to Bittersweet World since I last posted to this thread.

this is easily the ashlee simpson album i've returned to least but "boys" is such a fantastic summer jame

*jam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObXc526xPuI

never liked that 1

tracks i come back to on this:

little ms obsessive
bittersweet world
outta my head
nvr dream alone

love this album, albeit less than her previous two

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiW824jkzXk

soooo huge. the verses are so moody and perfect

AM I THE REASON WHY YOU TOSSED
AND TURNED
LAST NIGHT

& she never fails with the closing ballad. "never dream alone" is jaw-dropping.

the backgrounded vocals <3

nights will come and go...
you'll never dream alone...

"murder" is a riot

would argue there's not an actively poor song on any of her albums

"little miss obsessive" is def the standout, it's just less summery and so less...today

autobiography / love makes the world go round / better off / LOVE ME FOR ME / boyfriend / coming back for more / dancing alone / catch me when i fall / i am me / eyes wide open / outta my head / boys / little miss obsessive

those are the 10/10 all-timers imo

shadow + la la is the best 1-2 punch in history

http://www.ashleesimpsonmusic.com/

am i really the first person to post about this? what has happened to our borad

(i like this btw)

omg this sounds amazing

is it already gone or? i dont see anything there

is back, im down

omgomg

this is very promising

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T386nMfal0

i quite like this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2f/Clandestinein689.gif

I think this song is abjectly horrible

I enjoyed it for about 40 seconds.

BUT IT'S A WENTZ SUBTWEET

man how could you not dig this song

lmao @ wentz subtweet