Retromania: Pop culture's Addiction to its Own Past. (New Simon Reynolds book).

There are no differences other than the cover.

Cool thank you very much for the info!!!

why is the UK cover so FUCKING HORRIFIC.!!?>!???

i like the cover! also i think it kinda links back to the yellow and pink of Rip It Up's cover but maybe that's not the intention.

just finished this. it was a great read, beautifully written, lots to think about, and achingly researched, and if it makes people think about the stasis of pop which i dont think most people would disagree with (though there have been exceptions as this board knows like juke, grime, dubstep etc) then thats great.

but despite the first and last chapters, this was more like an exploration of retro trends and fetishists. i expected it to be more of a larger manifesto about how we have gone wrong and how we can put it right, rather than an examination/exploration of retro culture/nostalgia industries etc over the years, fascinating as all that is/was.

the other thing i found a bit strange was that for all the talk of sci fi and how space programs inspired optimism for the future and sci-fi sonics in music and so on, i thought he missed a bit about not just wanting music to SOUND like the/a future, but for music to aspire for other things to be better, all the old big battles like equality, poverty, peace (dont lol) and so on. ideological optimism for the future (or disatisfaction with the present, but then most music around or at least thats popular isnt really about reflecting much to do with the now either). but i dont think there was much about anything like that. it was largely about the sci-fi dreaming slant. didnt seem much about the diminishing role music plays in a lot of peoples lives either, the way its been relegated to something less significant than it was, which is another factor in why it wont be going at full throttle speed as it once did, or not much mention of it in any case.

^^ this. all of this. I enjoyed the book, but you're raising some absolutely key points which do get hinted at but could've been explored in a little more detail.

I say enjoyed, although admittedly I haven't quite finished it yet. It's a good read and I like the way it certainly isn't all about yelling at clouds.

it was sort of like reading a great degree/masters dissertation

i found it odd he barely mentioned the smaller role music plays in the cultural landscape these days esp when im sure he knows it/cited sci fi writers view of our tech-drowned present, which should have set him off travelling down that path, one where music is everywhere but meaning less - youd think his kids approach to media and the web etc would have made this figure a bit more.

Maybe he didn't want the book to sound so much like his blog.

the diminishing role music plays in a lot of peoples lives either, the way its been relegated to something less significant than it was

this isn't actually true

actually the book sounds very much like his blog, its quite personal at times, with him talking about his babysitter, family and so on

lex isnt it?

actually yes the book does come across at times as him fighting the impulse to go full-curmudgeon and at times i think that is exactly what was needed if he was trying to really do a lester bangs-isn 'make ppl sit up and take notice' type of piece

i think music is as immensely significant to people as it ever was

the kind of people to whom it's not significant are not the kind of people to whom it'd ever have been significant

and "significant" is a gradient anyway

xxpost: lester bangs or allan bloom? some of this sounds like "the closing of the american ear"

lex otm

Isn't it his point that music is significant to fewer people? Or plays a less central role? Rather than it is less significant to 'a person'

But then this runs into the general problem of 'royal we' nonsense

But then I don't understand the desire for music to be 'new' in the first place and find it a peculiarly British thing

Or perhaps more...the desire for some kind of idea of progress, or disappointment at its perceived absence

xxpost
ound it odd he barely mentioned the smaller role music plays in the cultural landscape these days esp when im sure he knows it/cited sci fi writers view of our tech-drowned present, which should have set him off travelling down that path, one where music is everywhere but meaning less - youd think his kids approach to media and the web etc would have made this figure a bit more.

― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 27 July 2011 11:14 (3 hours ago) Bookmark

i think music is as immensely significant to people as it ever was

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 13:55 (21 minutes ago) Bookmark

I'd be interested in hearing examples/reasons from both sides of this argument as to why/why not music is as significant to people.

It's certainly not as significant to the people around me as it used to - but that's mostly down to the fact my peers aren't teenagers any more and that I have little to go on as to modern teenagers' investments in listening.

Personally, I listen to music more than ever before and invest a great deal of time in it. But sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get as much out of music as I did out of, say, Parklife which was the first CD album I ever bought. These days I'd say 70% of music I come across gets a cursory 1-3 listens and then gets relegated to sitting around on my hard drive, maybe never to be heard again.

It's becoming increasingly difficult to imagine a record that could have the kind of cultural impact today as, e.g. Fear Of A Black Planet, Never Mind The Bollocks, Nevermind (to name three random examples) or any number of so-called "canon" albums. Sure you've got award winners, bestsellers, Coldplays and Adeles - but these aren't having any sort of profound effect on the public conscious at large, they're really just moving units in time for the next gout-du-jour. You've also got a huge amount of Pitchfork-friendly albums of varying quality.

One of the main differences, and this is mentioned by SReynolds, is that today we have access to so much new music, we arguably don't take as much time over a release as we once might. The temptation to skip and shuffle around our HDs and YouTubes is so incredibly strong. So while I was technically listening to less music in the '90s, I was listening to the same albums a lot more deeply.

Find the argument that "there is too much music now therefore we pay less attention to each release" really confusing

I never gave more time to individual releases in the past than I do know.....I missed out on stuff then also.

Main difference is, I hear better music now and play it more often

Also - I was reading an interview with King Creosote the other day where he said:

On one hand a genius from the modern age can come along and make something that sounds as good as Diamond Mine, but in general I find it a real drag and best avoided whenever possible. If technology results in a machine that drops one back into a pre-technological era, than I’m all for it. I’d punch 1974 into the dial and would probably expire in time for the millenium celebrations.

Retromania, as far as I've read, might berate this kind of attitude - but is it necessarily a bad or unhealthy position to hold?

post - seriously? are you saying you listen to the same amount of music now as you did in the pre-MP3 era? And that you honestly listen to it with the same (for want of a better word) care as you did then?

I know I'm much more likely to listen to an album if I buy it on CD than if I were to download it off D3m0noid or whatever. It's just a psychological thing of having bought a product with packaging and a disc I have to put into a machine.

That isn't what i said

what i said was the amount of time i would give to a release (ie before deciding whether to buy it)

very sorry, not sure i understand that either... ?

the smaller role music plays in the cultural landscape these days

Titchy have you, like, looked at the news at all this week?

If i went into a record shop in the past I wouldn't give any single i listened to about as long as i would today off a youtube or mp3

sorry i mean i WOULD give them about the same amount of chance

I listen to each track probably more times since getting an mp3 player also

the smaller role music plays in the cultural landscape these days

Titchy have you, like, looked at the news at all this week?

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 14:50 (1 minute ago) Bookmark

Could be argued that the repercussions of Winehouse's death are largely a product of the cult of celebrity than investment in music, but good point all the same.

i get the impression that dog latin is way too invested in his flimsy, simplistic and blinkered argument because it'd make him feel better about the fact that it applis to HIM, individually, but i wish he'd stop speaking on behalf of "us" or "society" or "everyone"

people need to really think before they ever use the first person plural

The mechanics of being able to fit music around your daily routine (especially on the move) are easier and more convenient than they've ever been as well. I'd say the average amount of time people spend listening to music has gone up since the 90s.

That said I remember buying a lot of stuff blind in the mid-90s, stuff I didn't immediately like and because I'd paid £15 of my limited cash for it would play it again and again trying to get into it. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Not sure I expend that level of effort any more, but then again that's as much a question of economics as cost - I have more cash now and even without free music a single record would feel like less of an investment. But I hear more good stuff now.

Agree with lex - and I don't want to state my position as either typical or unusual

OMG you have got to be kidding me. I have worked at a computer nearly my entire adult life...started out with a walkman, graduated to Discman, then early internet radio.

I have never been more excited about music than the present. I have waited my whole life to listen to heaps of obscure dance tracks all day!! Albums, schmalbums. I feel as if I am going to pay for this in the afterworld.

Not everyone has a job where they get to have music on in their office, though.

i get the impression that dog latin is way too invested in his flimsy, simplistic and blinkered argument because it'd make him feel better about the fact that it applis to HIM, individually, but i wish he'd stop speaking on behalf of "us" or "society" or "everyone"

people need to really think before they ever use the first person plural

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 14:57 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

That's funny, I don't remember having argued about, for or against anything in this thread? Just commenting.

mdc otm about both being able to listen to music more now and "trying" to get into albums, but i don't feel as though i'm closed off to slow burners or growers these days, they still happen.

when a great album or single hoves into view i get as obsessive about playing it on loop 904387343473 times as i ever did, eg my last.fm stats for beyonce's latest

Mount Cleaners experience is analogous to mine - I also am unable to listen in the office (much)

Even a cursory glance at last.fm shows others have this experience although I forget to turn it on

It's becoming increasingly difficult to imagine a record that could have the kind of cultural impact today as, e.g. Fear Of A Black Planet, Never Mind The Bollocks, Nevermind (to name three random examples) or any number of so-called "canon" albums. Sure you've got award winners, bestsellers, Coldplays and Adeles - but these aren't having any sort of profound effect on the public conscious at large, they're really just moving units in time for the next gout-du-jour

looks like an argument to me dog latin, a position you've staked out

i totally understand if you want to distance yourself from it though, it's not a very good one

I do listen to much fewer albums....almost no recent albums although lots of older albums and compilations

Fear Of A Black Planet, Never Mind The Bollocks, Nevermind

prefer music to have no cultural impact

http://www.last.fm/user/lexpretend/library/music/Beyonc%C3%A9/_/countdown

^^cursory listens, not spending as much time on or getting as much out of a recent track as i used to when i was a teenager

oh wait

I'm 36 and have spent more money on music in the last two years than ever, and also spent less money, thanks to mp3's and downloads, thanks to which I think I'm a better critic: it's so much easier to be discerning when I'm continually immersed in the past and present of music.

also i can't play it right now cuz i'm in an office but rest assured it's playing over and over in my head

me and my BOOF and my BOOF BOOF RIDIN
all up in that BLACK with his CHICK right BESIDE HIM

Looking at my last.fm shows much in the way of multiple plays of new (and new to me) music though most of my plays aren't scrobbled

Last.fm stats of yourself (and others) could 'prove' this argument in any direction depending on who you are - but my own stats show a high degree of multiple plays of (mainly) new (and new to me) music (when i remember to actually turn it on anyway)

meant to only have the second line there not the first

I'm 36 and have spent more money on music in the last two years than ever, and also spent less money, thanks to mp3's and downloads, thanks to which I think I'm a better critic: it's so much easier to be discerning when I'm continually immersed in the past and present of music.

Interesting take -- at 40, I'm...similar, but not exactly in the same boat. In essence my music purchasing goes three ways at this point:

1) The very occasional online purchase, often motivated by someone getting me a gift card for iTunes or the like.
2) Scrounging through the CD dollar bins at Amoeba, which increasingly turn up all sorts of old *and* new releases all over the place (along with parallel dollar or even one cent purchasing via Amazon Marketplace)
3) Purchases towards the kind of microlabels that Simon talks about in the book, though this has been very scattershot this year due to my moving expenses and other factors.

All this is of course complemented by the wide range of promo material I have access to due to being a writer, for which I'm grateful. Overall I'd say my actual purchasing is certainly less than it was but the sheer *amount* of music I deal with is vast.

prefer music to have no cultural impact

Weird thing to say. Take it or leave it, fine, but to actively prefer no wider cultural ripples at all?

In general, the question "is music more or less than or about as important as it was before" is really a question about how we as a culture portray the importance of music in the stories we tell ourselves about the world, and has little or anything to do with actual people actually experiencing music.

For a long time music derived a good deal of its perceived importance from the fact that it was a convenient stand-in for youth culture generally. Explaining what bands young people were into was a shorthand for explaining the many and varying codes, allegiances, alliances, habits, languages and lies of young people, many of which observers were not in a position to identify let alone understand.

Now that more parts of youth culture are reported on and taken seriously, this microcosm approach to the kids becomes less necessary - girls screaming when they see the beatles isn't the only truth of girls we're in a position to tell, let alone the only truth worth telling.

prefer music to have no cultural impact

Weird thing to say. Take it or leave it, fine, but to actively prefer no wider cultural ripples at all?

― Strictly vote-splitting (DL), Wednesday, July 27, 2011 2:20 PM

was kind of referring to the albums Dog Latin mentioned, none of which I could ever imagine listening to...but....in general actually kind of yes i do prefer (I don't have a valid explanation, it just is)

I still buy CDs, but to me it is like buying a book on a topic, a hard copy of something for archival purposes. I don't hate them, it's just that the cult of the CD kind of bothers me. I like the aesthetics of shuffle play, it isn't new at all, it takes me back to the days when I got most of my music from the radio.

I'm not sure there's such thing as music with no cultural impact, even the most obscure music has some kind of cumulative impact.