2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/allison-kilkenny/john-mccain-is-a-big-fcki_b_94952.html

a little heavy on the whore-talk there

(I mean not that I disagree but that isn't the kind of rhetoric that sways undecideds)

aren't you the one that wants independents to be more like that stupid article you linked to the other day that called Sarah Palin sugartits??

if you had actually read what I said you might have noted that what I wanted was for more independents who didn't like/didn't trust/wouldn't vote for her, not necessarily more independents with shittily written blog posts.

for

lord knows weve got plenty of independents with shittily written blog posts

all you wrote was "More independents like this please" and then linked to the Sugartits, Inc. document

i'm not sure what you want, Shakey Mo

perhaps I should clarify that what I meant was "more independents who are not into Palin" and not necessarily "more independents who rant, sometimes using inappropriate rhetoric"

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, September 12, 2008 8:23 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol

MOAR TITS de SUCRE

(I mean not that I disagree but that isn't the kind of rhetoric that sways undecideds)

i didn't know they liked to read huffpo in their spare time. i was merely pointing out some fine objective analysis.

I wonder how many Tina Fey fans are now tempted to switch their votes to McCain-Palin, in the hopes that a McCain-Palin administration would lead to regular SNL appearances by Fey.

oh come on

sry i don't often post to rolling us pantomime but palin's speech today about how OMG THIS TOWN HAS SOME HOCKEY PLAYERS oh and btw the next president john mccain will support america's heroic businessmen through these troubled times was quite simply the most objectionable piece of public speaking by a potential head of state i've seen in yonks, and this includes Mugabe's address at the power-sharing announcement today

This is why democracy is worth fighting for.

xp

McCain convention bounce gone

sry i don't often post to rolling us

speak for yourself

...he is?

is this thing going to be so close as to be unbearable or is it still too early to tell?

Liberal PAC affiliated with Howard Dean's brother running anti-McCain ad that goes directly after his POW experience, featuring a fellow former POW:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/09/independent_gro.html

that's some sleaze i can get behind

why can't it be november already, all this campaigning is making me ill.

its weird/funny how whatever McCain's campaign says about Obama seems to really be about McCain

No one can match an American worker. Our workers sell more goods to more markets than any other on earth. Our workers have always been the strength of our economy, and they remain the strength of our economy today.

While I can hardly argue with the last bit can anyone explain the second line or is it just election piffle?

I'd say its probably an outright lie.

It is, Germany exports more than the USA does.

Krugman nailed this one earlier:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/were-number-what/

Our workers have always been the strength of our economy, and they remain the strength of our economy today.

Our workers who can't pick lettuce for $50 an hour. They just can't.

to busy picking arugula

TOO

its weird/funny how whatever McCain's campaign says about Obama seems to really be about McCain

Not so weird when you factor in that Obama is rubber and McCain is glue.

lol at Fox News giving McCain spokesman a kicking for the recent McCain campaign dishonesty

and this is probably the most effective Obama ad I've seen:

(both from http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2008/09/fox_news_in_revolt.cfm)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/science/16science.html

oh you guys. Obama's space answer is pretty empty, but McCain's...

"Ensure U.S. leadership in space by promoting an exploration agenda that will combine the discoveries of our unmanned probes with new technologies to take Americans to the Moon, Mars, and beyond"

No no no no. At least he admits it's dumb:

"Although the general view in the research community is that human exploration is not an efficient way to increase scientific discoveries given the expense and logistical limitations, the role of manned space flight goes well beyond the issue of scientific discovery and is reflection of national power and pride."

taking people to the moon! can't be done!

"the role of manned space flight goes well beyond the issue of scientific discovery and is reflection of national power and pride"

You know what else would reflect national power and pride? A massive freaking tide farm lighting up the BoWa grid. Just sayin'...

did Obama really claim that he will cure the sick? i mean it's one thing to mock grandiosity in speeches but for the official campaign spokesman to say that w/o smiling is just hilariously absurd

He promised quality affordable healthcare for all Americans, that should cure at least some of them.

i should clarify - it's one thing for McCain/Palin to mock O's alleged grandiosity in their speeches, but for their official campaign spokesman - Bounds - to say that Obama wants to cure everyone in that Fox video up above without smiling is hilariously absurd :)

[quote]can be all too easily painted as a un-american, non-free-market drain on all-american small town businesses[/quote]

[quote]and my point, which you keep insisting on missing, is 'by whom'?[/quote]

The core of the palin narrative is down-home small town, small business, (whilst, perversely also being 'sam'z club'). It's is, and has been, a profitable myth for the GOP to exploit. What you don't seem to get is my point that unless you get a body of people (swing voters) invested in the success it is an easy target for such attacks, and many others. Unless universal healthcare has gone far enough to touch and benefit these people's lives then you have a system that will only last 4 years.

Changing the 'quote' code and hiding the formatting help at the same time: classic

The core of the palin narrative

Does anyone else get the feeling that Pundits/Political commentators are the astrologists of our century? They watch Jupiter move and then they make up a hundred reasons/narratives for why it moved. But they really have no relationship to reality. Except that pundits are even worse than astrologers because they don't definitively know that Jupiter moved. All they have are a dozen contradictory polls that change day to day. I'm sure this isn't an original point but sometimes it's incredibly frustrating to read op-ed after op-ed explaining strategy and trends and narratives that really have absolutely no firm connection to any reality whatsoever.

haha. it's astrologers, sir, and we have fixed and unalterable significations for Jupiterian transits that are cross-cultural, thanx

but anyway...i think the conservative pundits/bloggers are not that different from liberal ones in that the latch onto "polling data" that supports their current campaign narratives or spin constructs, and ignore ones that don't. for example at NRO's Corner there were oh...like 2 ? blog posts about the Wall Street meltdown yesterday. and all the rest were still about Gibson's cruel behavior of Palin, or Obama committing treason in Iraq.

it's like if they whistle loud enough, we won't hear the helicopter overhead

Yeah, astrologers. It's very late here and the Eagles lost to the Cowboys. I'm not totally in my right mind.

What really drives me nuts is that the few statistics we have (like those that show that a VP candidate have barely any affect upon an election) get thrown out every four years because THIS YEAR IT'S DIFFERENT.

It is more significant than in most elections as many people think there's a good chance McCain won't last a full term.

Maybe it's more significant. How the hell would you prove it though?

did Obama really claim that he will cure the sick?

i think he claimed he would increase research funding enormously, much of it specifically targeted towards cures for the leading diseases - something many docs think might be possible and many pols have been talking about for years. remember LIeberman's "American Center for Cures"? perhpas the surrogate went overboard, but i'd give people a lot of leeway to counter bullshit on Fox.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/09/15/palin_had_tanning_bed_installed.html

The core of the palin narrative is down-home small town, small business, (whilst, perversely also being 'sam'z club'). It's is, and has been, a profitable myth for the GOP to exploit. What you don't seem to get is my point that unless you get a body of people (swing voters) invested in the success it is an easy target for such attacks, and many others.

i thought business was the community we had to win over. now it's swing voters? the reason i'm seeming tetchy here is because you seem to be applying an abstract notion of how things work and not confronting our realities. i think you're simply wrong that swing voters need to invested in the success of a health care program for it to work. swing voters are typically busy people who only pay attention to their needs. some of them need and will get health care and will support its creation and oppose its dismantling. some of them will ignore the issue coming or going but aren't going to be driven to vote against it.

The core of the palin narrative is down-home small town, small business, (whilst, perversely also being 'sam'z club').

this is a non-sequitur - most swing voters are not small-towners, and it's palin's personality and gender that have appealed to people (most of them unhappy Republicans, rather than swing voters, who still haven't made up their minds), not her narrative, which doesn't have much to do with small business (who, btw, obama exempts from employer contribution to the new plan and gives a tax credit).

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS201335+09-Apr-2008+BW20080409