tracy morgan - classic or dud?

(and no I am not going to write this hypothetical material for Michael Richards so don't even ask)

Feel like this should be in here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqcw77FckOQ

have really never found him funny

Curious what Louis CK thinks Tracy Morgan is suffering here. Morgan said some gross unfunny shit on a public stage (not sure why CK thinks a stage at louisville club isn't public), a guy told everyone that 30 rock's captain wacky was pulling this shit for dollars, everyone went "oh man, not captain wacky, that sucks, I dunno if I like him anymore." To which Captain Wacky didn't say "y'all missed some context, let me educate you" he apologized and went into hardcore damage control. Does CK think people shouldn't point out stuff they think is bullshit? Should America be like "woah, blog poster, that stand-up routine is none of our business, we didn't pay to see it?" I wish CK would find someone specific to disagree with cuz it sounds like he's spitting at strawmen here.

Maybe there's some magic wall where if you're a stand-up you get to vent and lash out and say dumb shit but if you're in the audience you're just supposed to keep quiet and support their commercial endeavors

That's kind of stand-up since Lenny Bruce or the Earl of Rochester, though, no?

so what?

Feel like this should be in here:

got fairly irritated with this schtick 1:30 in and quit watching tbh. I hate the whole "faggot" doesn't mean "gay"! just reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOxOR3x8FBQ

(ie, an idiot professing an ignorance of how language works in order to protect himself)

louis ck is generally funny but such an idiot when he gets on his soapbox

I'll never understand what point there is to the "yes but Offensive Thing is a tradition as old as the hills" argument.

I'm shocked that anyone going to see Morgan do his routine isn't prepared for whatever. I mean - just look at those YT clips upthread (posted on YT in '08). WTF were the offended parties expecting?

the goofy guy from 30 rock, probably. it's a popular show on tv.

he was also on SNL

those shows are both quite a bit more popular than those youtube clips and this thread, i reckon

Just because some great comedian of yore was unduly punished because idiots couldn't handle his genius use of free speech doesn't mean that one is an idiot for being shocked and disappointed by a comedian saying vile shit, even if this isn't the first time said comedian has said vile shit.

I am of several minds about this.

I totally see Louis CK's point, which seems to be a twofold "stop neutering my profession with selective flavor-of-the-month outrage" argument mixed in with "anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes with this dude would not take that comment at face value", but I find both of those to be very difficult arguments to accept.

Argument 1 falls down because it is attempting to put consistency on an inconsistent emotional reaction. Different things offend different people to different degrees and part of putting stuff out there is accepting the judgment of the people you are speaking to. Tracy Morgan crossed a significant line with his audience, to the point where (like with Michael Richards) it ceased to be seen as part of his act. (Conversely, as awful as Carlos Mencia and Larry the Cable Guy are in their acts, all the loathsome stereotype-baiting bullshit they spew is 100% consistent with their acts and pretty much up front in what you are signing on for when you watch them perform.) Tracy did what he felt was the right thing in response to the negative feedback; Louis CK is attempting to remove that part of the performer-audience loop entirely out of the equation.

The second part is immaterial to the argument because most people watching Tracy Morgan perform don't know him in real life, so they have no idea how nice he is offstage and bringing it up is just hearsay; also, people tend to make allowances for people they know (or know in passing) and like, because no one wants to admit misjudging a person; it's a pretty normal defensive reaction if you are not going to distance yourself from the person.

In summation, I see what you're trying to do Louis CK but really, stfu. We'll get to you when someone mistakes your stage patter for intent.

30 Rock/SNL trade in similarly crude anti-gay humor sometimes, though.

that's some false equivalency there

I think CK is also defending TM since the process in which standup try out new shit is fairly dangerous and Louie knows this kind of thing could quite well bite him on the ass one day. By attacking Morgan, we're moving Louie's safety net. Maybe these guys are starting to believe that a Nashville club that only sit 500 or whatever is the same as their living room.

I am trying to think of the last "stab my gay son dead"-level joke on either SNL or 30 Rock and am coming up blank.

xp: I meant to mention that but figured I'd already used up a lot of words on an argument that boiled down to "stfu Louis CK"

SNL got some shit from GLAAD after their "lol trannies" ad parody a few months ago, too.

I had forgotten about that commercial but, upon rewatching, it seems to be about a thousand times less mean and offensive than "I would stab my gay son dead"

I mean, the most offensive line in it is "men who take Estro-Maxxx may develop an interest in TLC's 'Say Yes To The Dress'"

oh i wasn't saying they were equal levels of offensive, if anything i'm suggesting morgan's was well past the line of where people get understandably offended.

Darin otm

estro-maxx was a disappointingly lazy throwback to the "men with boobs? WHAAAAAA" era of comedy but was pretty low on threats of homophobic violence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMroWnWIqs0

well strictly speaking it was "men with boobs on a treadmill? WHAAAAAA" but yeah

I call them mitties

also the name of one of my cats

to make my point, whatever it is, clearer: I specifically call the breasts mitties

but my entire cat is named mitties, not its breasts

I hope my point is clear

crystal!

I agree it's a false equivalency in that the accepted, polite form of that kind of humor is more insidious and passed off as all in good fun.
There's a strange framework in which it is socially ok to make fun of gay people, and it feels to me as though Tracy is being
punished more for going outside that framework than for being mean, and I would rather see him apologize outside that framework as well
instead of going through the traditional litany of PR repair.

who's punishing him?

society maaannnnnn

he is being punished... by doing high-profile charity work

i mean that's the thing, all the criticisms of the reaction to his actions - I don't even know for sure what's being criticized. There was a general sense of shock/disappointment, and then a flurry of pr statements.

haha yeah, it does seem that the original "wow, too far"/"oops I'm sorry, here let me not only retract but do some work for you guys" interaction should have been the end of this

http://www.louisck.com/welcomeit.htm

One thing I have heard ad nauseum is that this is not censorship because the government didn’t do it. I don't understand why so many people say this.

... because that is the form of censorship we are protected against in this country?

people are seriously stupid

I think the withering look of disappointment in Tracy's surrogate mom, Tina Fey, is probably the greatest punishment of all.

ugh can't Louis CK just be the "extreme Bill Cosby" in terms of awesome parenting anecdotes and not the "extreme Bill Cosby" in terms of being a rambling crank when he tries to be serious?

if censorship by the government is the only form of censorship we're protected from, then there must be other forms of censorship we are not protected from, so saying something isn't censorship because the government isn't perpetrating it is stupid, and that's his point.

LCK first comment mostly OFFtm, new rant mostly OTM.

government is the only institution with the authority/means to censor something - ie, legally bar it from public consumption. if the government's not involved, it's not censorship.

If Louie thinks comedians being fired by their employers for saying fucked up things is the most dangerous thing in America right now, he should maybe pick up a newspaper.

christ stand-ups are some entitled motherfuckers. "hey hey i know you guys are trying to fight a male dominated rape culture but FREE SPEECH TRUMPS ALL YO you can't deny opie & anthony the right to express themselves for millions on the radio by saying they suck to the point that their corporate overlords make a symbolic gesture of suspending them. So stfu when you're offended, I'm fighting big fights here."