tracy morgan - classic or dud?

Fey's statement is hard to find fault with AND funnier than i usu find her

^ agreed

this whole thing just makes me want to go OH LOOOOOAAAAAAARD

His standup delivery is chopped-and-screwed in a fantastic way.

woah Hoos, I didn't know you were Tracy's grandmother

Tracy Morgan Comes Out For Gay Marriage, Says He'd Love His Son If He Were Gay

Louis CK weighs in:

Well I've said a lot of things that were worse than what he said. I have my things that make it OK for people when I say them. I have my irony and different levels that I'm working at, so that makes it OK for people around me, for people that come to my shows. And people heard this Tracy shit mostly third-hand. He didn't stand on a public stage and say this stuff. He didn't make these announcements: "Here, America, are my views." Where you say something makes a huge difference about what you say and what it means and what you let yourself say.
There's a lot of times when I let myself channel bad ideas as a way to do comedy. I think it's something that's a healthy thing to do, honestly. And I think the person who really fucked people up and hurt people with Tracy's words was whoever took it out of that Nashville club and put it on the national stage—whoever called Huffington Post or whoever started this shit, and said, "Guess what Tracy Morgan said," and announced it to the rest of the world. He wasn't trying to say it to the rest of the world. So when I read stuff like, How are gay people going to feel when they read this? Well they didn't have to read it! They weren't part of that show. Maybe there were gay people there who were laughing. You don't fucking know. Nobody gets to say that they represent anybody and they're offended on behalf of the whole world.
You can see this shit really bothers me. I didn't carefully inspect what he said. I heard some of it, and it made me laugh. I didn't get the context, but I have to defend it, because if I was in his role, if I was in his situation, which I might be someday—which I already am for having said something on his behalf—I would want someone to step forward and say something. This is a freedom that I live off of. I think, whatever, if Tracy made a mistake, he certainly didn't deserve all of this. And I don't know him well, but he's a good guy. So I'm using that judgment, of just, hey, I met him and he's a good guy. And I get a sense of him as a father, and there's no way he would stab his kid.
It's a dumb thing to take at face value. You'd have to be a moron. And if you do, you are not allowed to laugh at any more jokes. You are not allowed to laugh at any jokes that have any violence or negative feelings attached to them, ironically or otherwise. I think there's a lot of hypocrisy in that. If anybody thinks that what he said is true and there's no comedy in it, don't come to my shows. I've said to many audiences that I think you shouldn't rape someone unless you have a good reason, like you want to fuck them and they won't let you. That's worse than what he said! And I didn't wink and say, just kidding. I just said it.

louis ck NOTM

Maybe there were gay people there who were laughing. You don't fucking know.

no, I'm pretty sure there weren't

that said, Morgan's remarks at that HuffPo link are rad, I think he's got his heart in the right place wherever it was before & for whatever reason - I don't think "he's only doing this to save his career," which people sometimes say when somebody does an about-face, is actually a criticism; I don't give a shit what people's motivation is for deciding to be cool, if somebody decides to be cool then that is good imo

i see where he's coming from but louis is.... offtm

louis' bit is funny because he deftly leads you down this weird road to seeing rape as a rational thing to do, which is unsettling and freaky and hilarious - and it ultimately POINTS UP JUST HOW FUCKED UP RAPE IS. and guess what, no one has complained about it. huh. if tracy morgan was trying to do the same thing it didn't work, and you just really need to be sure what you're doing works when you play with those subjects

i mean, i haven't been following this cause i don't really give a shit, but has tracy morgan said like, hey, that was meant to be an insight into the mind of an asshole rather than my own views or whatever?

I don't think those were his views. I think he was just doing a sort of stream of consciousness shock comedy thing, and it's easy to lose your way when you are just trying to think of the most shocking thing you can think of for laughs.

you could use the same sentence w/r/t michael richards tho?

The offensive part wasn't even the jokes that Michael Richards was making though. It was his reaction to the guy who cried foul in the audience.

I mean, it was already somewhat offensive, sure, but then he went off the rails.

yeah but it was supposed to be funny in a zing-y responding-to-heckler way

Michael Richards verbally attacked members of the audience using racist language. totally different.

like, Tracy Morgan was not threatening to stab gay audience members, or commenting on how 50 years ago it would have been perfectly acceptable for him to stab them for being gay.

so what if the n-word and lynching jokes were part of his act instead? that'd really be better?

depends what the jokes are tbh

(and no I am not going to write this hypothetical material for Michael Richards so don't even ask)

Feel like this should be in here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqcw77FckOQ

have really never found him funny

Curious what Louis CK thinks Tracy Morgan is suffering here. Morgan said some gross unfunny shit on a public stage (not sure why CK thinks a stage at louisville club isn't public), a guy told everyone that 30 rock's captain wacky was pulling this shit for dollars, everyone went "oh man, not captain wacky, that sucks, I dunno if I like him anymore." To which Captain Wacky didn't say "y'all missed some context, let me educate you" he apologized and went into hardcore damage control. Does CK think people shouldn't point out stuff they think is bullshit? Should America be like "woah, blog poster, that stand-up routine is none of our business, we didn't pay to see it?" I wish CK would find someone specific to disagree with cuz it sounds like he's spitting at strawmen here.

Maybe there's some magic wall where if you're a stand-up you get to vent and lash out and say dumb shit but if you're in the audience you're just supposed to keep quiet and support their commercial endeavors

That's kind of stand-up since Lenny Bruce or the Earl of Rochester, though, no?

so what?

Feel like this should be in here:

got fairly irritated with this schtick 1:30 in and quit watching tbh. I hate the whole "faggot" doesn't mean "gay"! just reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOxOR3x8FBQ

(ie, an idiot professing an ignorance of how language works in order to protect himself)

louis ck is generally funny but such an idiot when he gets on his soapbox

I'll never understand what point there is to the "yes but Offensive Thing is a tradition as old as the hills" argument.

I'm shocked that anyone going to see Morgan do his routine isn't prepared for whatever. I mean - just look at those YT clips upthread (posted on YT in '08). WTF were the offended parties expecting?

the goofy guy from 30 rock, probably. it's a popular show on tv.

he was also on SNL

those shows are both quite a bit more popular than those youtube clips and this thread, i reckon

Just because some great comedian of yore was unduly punished because idiots couldn't handle his genius use of free speech doesn't mean that one is an idiot for being shocked and disappointed by a comedian saying vile shit, even if this isn't the first time said comedian has said vile shit.

I am of several minds about this.

I totally see Louis CK's point, which seems to be a twofold "stop neutering my profession with selective flavor-of-the-month outrage" argument mixed in with "anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes with this dude would not take that comment at face value", but I find both of those to be very difficult arguments to accept.

Argument 1 falls down because it is attempting to put consistency on an inconsistent emotional reaction. Different things offend different people to different degrees and part of putting stuff out there is accepting the judgment of the people you are speaking to. Tracy Morgan crossed a significant line with his audience, to the point where (like with Michael Richards) it ceased to be seen as part of his act. (Conversely, as awful as Carlos Mencia and Larry the Cable Guy are in their acts, all the loathsome stereotype-baiting bullshit they spew is 100% consistent with their acts and pretty much up front in what you are signing on for when you watch them perform.) Tracy did what he felt was the right thing in response to the negative feedback; Louis CK is attempting to remove that part of the performer-audience loop entirely out of the equation.

The second part is immaterial to the argument because most people watching Tracy Morgan perform don't know him in real life, so they have no idea how nice he is offstage and bringing it up is just hearsay; also, people tend to make allowances for people they know (or know in passing) and like, because no one wants to admit misjudging a person; it's a pretty normal defensive reaction if you are not going to distance yourself from the person.

In summation, I see what you're trying to do Louis CK but really, stfu. We'll get to you when someone mistakes your stage patter for intent.

30 Rock/SNL trade in similarly crude anti-gay humor sometimes, though.

that's some false equivalency there

I think CK is also defending TM since the process in which standup try out new shit is fairly dangerous and Louie knows this kind of thing could quite well bite him on the ass one day. By attacking Morgan, we're moving Louie's safety net. Maybe these guys are starting to believe that a Nashville club that only sit 500 or whatever is the same as their living room.

I am trying to think of the last "stab my gay son dead"-level joke on either SNL or 30 Rock and am coming up blank.

xp: I meant to mention that but figured I'd already used up a lot of words on an argument that boiled down to "stfu Louis CK"

SNL got some shit from GLAAD after their "lol trannies" ad parody a few months ago, too.

I had forgotten about that commercial but, upon rewatching, it seems to be about a thousand times less mean and offensive than "I would stab my gay son dead"

I mean, the most offensive line in it is "men who take Estro-Maxxx may develop an interest in TLC's 'Say Yes To The Dress'"

oh i wasn't saying they were equal levels of offensive, if anything i'm suggesting morgan's was well past the line of where people get understandably offended.

Darin otm

estro-maxx was a disappointingly lazy throwback to the "men with boobs? WHAAAAAA" era of comedy but was pretty low on threats of homophobic violence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMroWnWIqs0

well strictly speaking it was "men with boobs on a treadmill? WHAAAAAA" but yeah

I call them mitties