― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 18 September 2004 00:18 (nineteen years ago) link
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 00:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― Nowell, Saturday, 18 September 2004 02:14 (nineteen years ago) link
1. D.H. Peligro (Dead Kennedys drummer)2. Skeeter Thompson (Scream bassist)3. Sly Stone4. Gary Powell (the Libertines drummer)5. Bad Brains6. Poly Styrene* (X-Ray Spex)7. Chuck Berry8. Little Richard9. Mick Collins10. Jimi Hendrix11. Pat Smear** (the Germs, Nirvana, Foo Fighters)12. Vaginal Creme Davis13. Carl Crack (Atari Teenage Riot)14. Ivan Julian (guitarist for Richard Hell & the Voidoids)15. Jean Beauvoir (Plasmatics bassist; Ramones songwriter)16. Slash*** (Guns 'n Roses)17. Tom Morello**** (Rage Against the Machine, and, uh, Audioslave)18. Santi White (Stiffed)19. Phil Lynott***** (Thin Lizzy)20. Michael Cornelius (JFA bassist)21. Bubba Dupree (Void guitarist)22. Ike Turner23. Robert Johnson
* = English/Somalian** = White, black and Cherokee*** = mulatto**** = mulatto***** = black/irish
― Nowell, Saturday, 18 September 2004 02:24 (nineteen years ago) link
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 18 September 2004 02:32 (nineteen years ago) link
― Nowell, Saturday, 18 September 2004 02:34 (nineteen years ago) link
When it came time for us to discuss Hip Hop in class, the prof brought in some producer from the detroit rap scene called MC Surreal. She was the only one in the class who didn't like rap, with the except of MC Paul Barman who she enjoyed.
― David Allen (David Allen), Saturday, 18 September 2004 06:35 (nineteen years ago) link
― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 18 September 2004 06:46 (nineteen years ago) link
― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 16:50 (nineteen years ago) link
A Thousand Miles - Vanessa Carlton 12:51 - The Strokes Seven Nation Army - The White Stripes The Scientist - Coldplay Torn - Natalie Imbruglia Spaceship - Kanye West, GLC & Consequence Lucifer - Jay-Z Sleep to Dream - Fiona Apple Cause I Love You - Lenny Williams Mystery of Iniquity - Lauryn Hill Distant Lover - Marvin Gaye Am I High - N.E.R.D. Used to Love U - John Legend This Love - Maroon 5 Take Me Out - Franz Ferdinand No Such Thing - John Mayer Scar Tissue - Red Hot Chili Peppers The Reason - Hoobastank Selfish - Slum Village, Kanye West & John Legend 99 Problems - Jay-ZElectric Relaxation - A Tribe Called Quest How Many MC's... - Black Moon The Rain - Missy Elliott
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:11 (nineteen years ago) link
"12:51" (Track 2): "Ah man, I love this song so much that I almost f**ked up the mix down on my album because you can barely hear their lyrics. I went in the mix on my album trying to make the guitar louder, trying to make it sound like The Strokes, and Common was like, 'Come on, man, that don't sound like hip-hop. Come on, man, turn them drums up.'"
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:14 (nineteen years ago) link
"Scar Tissue" (Track 17): "Red Hot Chili Peppers is my favorite group of all times, he says 'broken jaw,' too, so you know I like that."
"The Reason" (Track 18): "Them my homeboys, I always see them we go to places like England and Canada. We always kicking it backstage you know just having a good time."
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:17 (nineteen years ago) link
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:19 (nineteen years ago) link
"Seven Nation Army" (Track 3): "OK this is another song that is all black people's favorite white song. Everybody loves The White Stripes so it's kind of cliche, but it's really dope and I love the singer/songwriter/producer thing going on, so..."
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:25 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:27 (nineteen years ago) link
― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:29 (nineteen years ago) link
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:33 (nineteen years ago) link
― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:38 (nineteen years ago) link
christ.
I had no idea that Hoobastank kicks it backstage.
― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:39 (nineteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:42 (nineteen years ago) link
― m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:47 (nineteen years ago) link
― m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link
― m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:51 (nineteen years ago) link
― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link
― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:54 (nineteen years ago) link
― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:55 (nineteen years ago) link
― m. (mitchlnw), Tuesday, 26 October 2004 19:59 (nineteen years ago) link
But there is still a tendency, that while there have always (well, after 1955 anyway) been a lot of white people getting into musical genres that are normally stereotyped as "black", the percentage of black people getting into musical genres that are normally stereotyped as "white" is considerably smaller.
And I don't really buy the comparision between indie and Christian country here. Country music, not at least the Christian kind, is usually connected with a culture that black people have a good reason to distance themselves from. I mean, you've got the rednecks, the Christian right, the Ku Klux Klan etc. All of them part of a culture that is deeply rooted in the American South. Yes, I am aware that most African American music was pioneered in the same geographic areas, but country music is still very much linked with white people down there, and particularly with rascist and very much right wing ones.
As for indie, particularly in the US, indie started out in the college rock circuit, that is, among kids that were usually liberal, educated, and considerably less likely to be rascist than the Rednecks. Sure, they may be considerably more Middle class than the rednecks, so from a marxist point of view, they may be part of the oppressors while the rednecks are among the oppressed ones. But still, that kind of people are considerably more likely to have a tolerant attitude towards black people and black culture than the stereotype redneck does. And before post-50s r&r, pre-disco, these people were a lot more likely to be into R&B or early funk than the rednecks were too.
So I don't see why black Americans (as a general stereotype here, as I stated in the first paragraph, there are of course lots of exceptions to this stereotype) should see the need to distance themselves from indie (or the rock "canon", which is usually created by rather educated and tolerant people as well).
Indie is of course just an example, and it is correct that, for instance, Coldplay (a band that is loved by Timbaland btw) don't really "rock". So maybe a more natural question would be, why is is so hard for the vast majority black audiences to get into melody/song oriented "white" pop?
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 21 May 2005 02:45 (eighteen years ago) link
― jaymc (jaymc), Saturday, 21 May 2005 14:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 21 May 2005 14:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― RJG (RJG), Saturday, 21 May 2005 15:13 (eighteen years ago) link
Oh, Anthony is so funny! How To Rock Like A Black Feminist Critic to thread. (And I actually think the jump to country is a lot less hard than the jump to indie.) Even if every black fan of let's say Arcade Fire went to a show at one time, there's still way less of them than the white fans due to sheer numbers. What are there like 10 million black people compared to 100 million (okay, exaggerating) white people?
xpost I think part of that, Geir, is social indoctrination. There's socially coded "black things" and "white things." "Black things" when I was growing up in NYC: Hot 97/Kiss FM/WBLS, Video Music Box/Yo MTV Raps/BET, Right On/Honey/Vibe magazines, Martin/Def Comedy Jam/Jamie Foxx Show. "White things": Z-100/K-Rock/WPLJ, 120 Minutes, Rolling Stone/Seventeen/People, Friends/SNL/Home Improvement. Of course because those are mass media things, people are crossing all the time. In the "black community," the general reaction to black people liking "white shit" is "you're weird" so it inhibits people that compared to white people liking black stuff where it's like "whoa, you're so cool and forward-thinking!"
― Candicissima (candicissima), Saturday, 21 May 2005 15:21 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tokyo Ghost Stories (Tokyo Ghost Stories), Monday, 23 May 2005 02:15 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Emancipation of Baaderonixx (KERERU 4 LIFE!) (Fabfunk), Monday, 23 May 2005 08:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Nic de Teardrop (Nicholas), Monday, 23 May 2005 08:49 (eighteen years ago) link
Sure. I mean, I count understand that they prefer listening to Banghra or Bollywood. But why hip-hop? What is it in their cultural background that would make the particularly likely to enjoy American hip-hop? The fact that some American rappers are Muslims?
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 10:24 (eighteen years ago) link
Geir, people of all colors and religions all over the world are fascinated with and enjoy hip-hop. You can hear rapping in countless different languages.
― steve-k, Monday, 23 May 2005 11:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Emancipation of Baaderonixx (KERERU 4 LIFE!) (Fabfunk), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Monday, 23 May 2005 11:29 (eighteen years ago) link
But a lot of rock listeners -- indie listeners, in particular -- actively fret about about black people in particular not being as involved in the indie scene. My question was: why do they fret about that, and not, say, the fact that just as few (or fewer) black people are interested in Christian country?
Dances around the dynamic that I think is at work.
Indie fans look around at an indie show and see only white faces and they do fret, yes. But I will submit that their fretting is exactly NOT because of nabisco's conjectures (that the indie fretter "thinks of punk-lineage indie rock as 'better' or 'smarter' than everything else" or that "non-white races in particular are 'lesser' or 'dumber'").
I think the problem is precisely the opposite: white indie fans view the monochrome audiences at their favorite band's show as an indictment of their taste. Conversely, a mixed audience would be an endorsement of their taste. Partly because everyone secretly believes that if black people like it, then it must be funky, and funky is good.
The issue is twofold: on the one hand, these corny indie fuxorz have a nagging insecurity and a sense of inferiority in this one narrow area: the authenticity of how they experience musical enjoyment. Cf. the widespread generalization that the white folks have no soul, no rhythm, cannot dance, etc. Soul, rhythm, and dancing (associated with black musical enjoyment) are signs that you are enjoying the music on a more visceral and possibly more "real" level, vs. a more cerebral form of enjoyment that is associated with whiteness and lameness and general lack of "rock" virtues, which are supposed to center on the hips more than the head.
The second part of the equation has to do with indie fans being of an age and class and temperament where diversity is presented as an undisputed value. Geir just recently mentioned the
kind of people are considerably more likely to have a tolerant attitude towards black people and black culture than the stereotype redneck does
...translation: indie fans like to think of themselves as multiculturally inclined antiracists. Progressive values, socially liberal politics, a bohemian embrace of "alternative" culture. Let us leave aside for the moment whether they're right about themselves or not; what we're talking about is self-image. If an experience is as lily-white as your average Bright Eyes concert (say) then they worry that they're implicated in the segregation somehow, which runs counter to their self-image.
Hence the anxiety: it is driven more by insecurity than by arrogance.
― The Mad Puffin, Monday, 23 May 2005 12:56 (eighteen years ago) link
How if there is no segregation other than the one chosen by the opressed ones themselves?
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 17:57 (eighteen years ago) link
Sure, but why doesn't the same apply to indie, powerpop or prog?
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Monday, 23 May 2005 18:05 (eighteen years ago) link