Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Think the last three paras of that blog post is proof that Lawrence is the inspiration for the time babby.

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comments otm

Can we have the condensed version? If ever there were links I wish NOT to follow...

"I managed to make Steven Moffat my bitch, just the once, by making the same moves that a gorilla might make while attempting to take control of the flange"

Also, the bit with 'thin-fat gay married Anglican marines' was such an RTD nudge; irl lol.

Can we have the condensed version? If ever there were links I wish NOT to follow...

Basically, Larry is Bernard Butler to Moffat's Brett Anderson, or something...

Always liked his week-by-week commentary (which he'd then take down before the following week iirc?) - at best intelligent, funny, full of info, angry at the right kind of thing, a bit perverse, largely self-aware (though wont to rambling anecdotes). The moffatt-baiting and jokes seem to have taken over. Shame.

(which he'd then take down before the following week iirc?)

yes, this was maddening

So I got that Melody Pond became River Song bc Melody = Song and they didn't have ponds in the forest, just rivers. But a) why is the baby named Pond when Rory's last name is Williams (he is the father, right?) and b) why are the names reversed? Shouldn't she be Song River if it's just a translation issue?

Plenty of cultures even on real live right now earth reverse the family and given names. As for it being pond not williams, they was a little to and fro about that.

"Melody Williams is a school teacher, Melody Pond is a superhero," quoth Amy.

...reverse the family and given names from the standard western convention. Given that China does this and India does it both ways probably more people put their surname first than the other way round. (The french do this as well for addressing letters, plane tickets etc.)

Interesting info! Both pieces. I must've missed the exchange about the school teacher/superhero thing.

Props to the Doctor for not recruiting, I dunno, Micky and Martha or some other lamers for this particular war.

you fucking racist

― all cats are gay (sic), Monday, 6 June 2011 09:47 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i somehow have it in mind that the name reversal is because of the prayer cloth thing with names on each side and there is no order to which is first.

i'm a bit confused by the name on the cloth and the name 'in high gallifreyan' on the cot. was it really on the cot, or is that a fake out? (how could it be on there already?). if it is on the cloth, did it get duplicated like the flesh clothing gets duplicated? if not, then it's not with the tiny melody, so my theory is balls.

The name on the cloth was sewn on by the girl (who dies fighting on the Doctor's side) from the Forest. It specifically says the words don't translate.

i caught where the name on the cloth came from. but how does the name embroidered in forest-translated-ese get to go along with the baby. it's in amy's hand (transforming via tardis telepathy), so how did the real abductified baby grow up with the name if it's not written anywhere, unless the cloth in amy's hand is a flesh-tech duplicate too. i am still o_O

I'm not sure what you're not getting there BUT yeah, the name on the crib seems fishy, if that says either River Song or Melody Pond on it in old Gallifreyan then a) why's the doctor claiming it's his and b) how come he already had it and c) given that he already had it how is he surprised to learn who River really is?

i think the writing on the crib HAS to be a red herring - it makes no sense that THAT says melody pond. and the only thing that has the babel-translation and back to make it work is the gamman prayer cloth thing. (into gallifreyan and back it would be something else)

so maybe the cloth gets back to melody (does the doctor take it at the end when he whizzes off wherever the heck he's off to?)

presumably as a Time Lord cot it is capable of changing its name to identify which child it is currently associated with?

(i cracked and iplayered the last bit. the cot writing is just amy getting the wrong end of the stick, when river is referring to the cloth. so i'm ok on that count)

The whole cybermen bit seemed a bit redundant, other than the fact that the doctor had to get angry at a Classic big time Who enemy and Moffat didn't want to use the Daleks. In any case I thought the Cybermen were only a big deal in Rose's parallel universe. I'm not sure I can remember what was meant to have happened to them in the current who universe.

[SPECULATION]

River Song is

a) The Doctor's Mother

b) Galifreyan Eve -> New Galifrey Formed?

c) The extra DNA is somehow from the Tardis (now we know that the Tardis is a Woman) its some kind of not quite immaculate conception. Therefore does this follow that the Library is now some kind of Tardis possibly taken over by the Silence/Whatever is in James Corden's bedroom. Possibly House is involved somehow as well.

d) River Song is some kind of key that will undo the timewar and put all the old who stuff back in its proper place in the universe.

e) The timelord DNA is some kind of bleedthrough/projection from wherever the Timelords went and this is Timothy Dalton trying to break out again

f) something to do with The Master, maybe Lucy Saxon got the master's DNA into Amy somehow?

[/SPECULATION]

It's interesting to read the other Moffatt comments from 1996--he doesn't seem as though he'd be that keen to bring back Gallifrey, in that he finds it incredibly boring

From Lawrence Miles, completely missing the point: ""Blink" ... still seems unforgivably lazy to me ... Any competent writer should be able to auto-produce this kind of thing without even thinking about it ..." etc etc
Yeah, right, one of the best Who episodes ever, one of the best 45mins of TV I've ever seen, sure, anyone can just piss that out.

why is the baby named Pond when Rory's last name is Williams (he is the father, right?)

Rory’s last name is Pond.

“That’s not how it works.”
“Yes it is.”
“Yeah, it is.”

“Roranicus Pondicus!”

Also, show aside, wtf at a baby not being able to have the mother’s surname ffs.

i caught where the name on the cloth came from. but how does the name embroidered in forest-translated-ese get to go along with the baby.

FYI the babby a) will be rescued at some point in the show (and b) has already seen it onscreen so.)

In any case I thought the Cybermen were only a big deal in Rose's parallel universe. I'm not sure I can remember what was meant to have happened to them in the current who universe.

They were all wiped out from all points in history in the Time War. But Rusty’s shit ones from a parallel world have travelled to our universe now. Although these ones here didn’t have a Cybus logo on their chests.

(SPECULATION)
River Song is
a) The Doctor's Mother

They fake you out with this for a minute in this ep, but that’s all.

b) Galifreyan Eve -> New Galifrey Formed?

Can’t see the point.

c) The extra DNA is somehow from the Tardis (now we know that the Tardis is a Woman) its some kind of not quite immaculate conception. Therefore does this follow that the Library is now some kind of Tardis possibly taken over by the Silence/Whatever is in James Corden's bedroom. Possibly House is involved somehow as well.

The TARDIS isn’t necessarily a woman, it was just put in a human’s body that happened to be a woman.

d) River Song is some kind of key that will undo the timewar and put all the old who stuff back in its proper place in the universe.

Please no, I hate the no Daleks / surprise! it’s Daleks, no Cybermen / surprise! it’s Cybermen, no Time Lords / surprise! it’s Time Lords nonsense from RTD, but a) EVERYTHING IS BACK NOW except OG Cybermen anyway, and bringing old continuity into the new show is just boring and alienating for 98.2% of the audience.

e) The timelord DNA is some kind of bleedthrough/projection from wherever the Timelords went and this is Timothy Dalton trying to break out again

Fuck this too, there’s nothing useful to do with the Time Lords as Rusty left them. Or at any time post-Deadly Assassin, really (I <3 Invasion Of Time but rly)

f) something to do with The Master, maybe Lucy Saxon got the master's DNA into Amy somehow?

Maybe TEH RANI DID IT!!!!!1111one!

does anyone have a link or salvaged copy of Miles' at-the-time response to Blink? (or Unquiet Dead?)

It's interesting to read the other Moffatt comments from 1996--he doesn't seem as though he'd be that keen to bring back Gallifrey, in that he finds it incredibly boring

yay!

am i correct in assuming that...

1) the real amy was kidnapped at some point in in the temporal vicinity of her wedding (or maybe when she was a little girl...? and has been flesh ever since...?)
2) the real amy has been trapped by the priests and headless monks while she gave birth to a child that we are lead to believe will be river song (and is currently named melody pond?)
3) the doctor is killed by a little girl (who may end up being melody pond/river song) and is presumably going to be sentenced to life for her crimes but frequently able to break out, as long as she does not tell the doctor the true nature of their relationship prior to the demons run incident?
4) there's, perhaps, a second doctor running around who escaped from the flesh monster/acid island and he is doing evil-warrior-ish things and getting confused with the real-real doctor? like maybe he saved a little girl in the gamma forest, and she later saves his life?

what am i missing?

1. presumably after her wedding and the conception of the baby--if Amy was kidnapped earlier, the baby wouldn't be a time-vortex-affected baby
2. yes
3. the Doctor is killed by someone he recognised who was wearing (presumably) the same spacesuit that the little girl had been wearing, but 36 years AFTER the little girl was wandering around in the suit, so may not be the little girl, and if it was, she may well not be a little girl any more, but if it ios the girl then presumably she is the same as River Song
4. this could well be so

1) Amy was kidnapped between S5ep13 and S6ep1. This is said specifically in S6ep7.
2) Also shown explicitly in S6ep7.
3) We don't know yet. It could be, but might be a misdirect.
4) No. All that talk is about the real Doctor.

4) although there could be a second Dr reconstituted from the Flesh Doctor's shoes and stabilised in the TARDIS.

Someone should check the photo of Amy & babby from ep 2 and see how old babby was in that.

does anyone have a link or salvaged copy of Miles' at-the-time response to Blink?

Never mind that, what about his spec script for an episode ("Book of the World") that he posted then quickly took down? I wouldn't mind having another read of that. I've grown to quite like/get used to Miles, and amidst his lengthy ramblings he does often have insightful and funny - if cutting - things to say about nuWho. But there is a lot of ramble and rancour.
He also briefly had a spoof Radio Times blog - a bit like a long and rambling TV GoHome. It was good, but more than a little... 'aspie'.

I'm somehow doubting that it's River/Melody in the spacesuit when the Doctor gets killed. As the older River was standing there watching it with Amy and Rory, she would presumably have remembered it - but at the same time she seemed genuinely thrown and pretty pissed off when the younger Doctor appeared in the cafe.

I hope the Big Bad isn't the Weeping Angels, they're good silent villains but I can't see them working as the climax to a whole season. More likely to be the Silence I reckon. We're definitely going to see 1969, or at least Canton Delaware, again.

but if it child River turned up, killed the Doctor, and then wandered off into the future to get imprisoned in Stormcage she would have grown up thinking she'd killed the Doctor in all finality at that point, so as an adult she'd watch herself kill him, be powerless to stop it, fruitlessly shoot at her younger self out of futile guilt and be totally sure that that was the end of him (at least for this meeting). The spacesuited Doctor-killer doesn't know that there's another younger Doctor wafting about nearby, they only know that they've killed the one in front of them.

if River had grown up being forced to live inside a spacesuit, though, you'd think she would remember some of it. or at least, not be an ideal person to notice wonderingly that the child must have fought its way out of the spacesuit.

5. We saw a little girl wander unattended through an American alleyway at some point after 1969, announce that she was about to die but it was no big deal, and regenerate, who I suppose we are now meant to be thinking is Melody River Song Pond, but I don't know how this fits in with anything

so, yes, more Canton Delaware due

I do not like this summer-long break, I'm going to be full of pointless ideas and theories for the next fortnight while there's no hope of getting them confirmed, and then when it's actually back on telly I'll be all "eh? who are these people and why are they doing any of these things?"

(yes, I was wondering why River doesn't remember anything about the child in the spacesuit, if she was the child in the spacesuit)

private eye claiming some fuckups by bbc wales means there won't be a series 7 next year, just some specials.

http://www.kasterborous.com/2011/06/series-7-postponed/

hmm

There's a lot of conjecture there. Smith could easily fit in other work around Doctor Who and there's no guarantee that Amy and Rory will last past this year even if a 2012 series does go ahead.

Unless the child in the spacesuit is a flesh avatar.

A flesh avatar that can also regenerate? Hmm...the other issue (and mark against it being River or indeed any human) is why emerge from and then return to the lake, altho its not clear to what extent the suit's occupant can control its actions.

Just to speculate because it's bugging me where this is all going now and forgive me if I'm missing something obvious: Perhaps young Melody's 1969 regeneration conveniently (but brutally) means there is no child for Rory and Amy to raise, leaving Mr & Mrs Pond rather upset and unable to continue TARDIS adventures without constant sadfaces. To have this not trouble them enough and remain into next year seems awfully cold (the situation as is being already pretty fucking cold but preferable to the Doctor having to slap a 'baby on board' sticker on the TARDIS door certainly...tho that gag seems almost worth it). Any permanent split between Amy and Rory (including killing the latter off once and for all) also seems too cold, so one seems unlikely to depart without the other. Even with Moff you'd think all this harshness will have a happy outcome for the otherwise happy couple. Right? But at this point I can't think of an outcome that keeps the Ponds in the show beyond Xmas (altho this may just be me lacking sleep) while excluding parenthood which it surely must...and its annoying that they may once again not be able to keep a companion around for more than two seasons.

bbc head of comms has now said on twitter that 14 more matt smith dr who episodes have been commissioned. i am astonished that private eye have printed unfounded rumours.

lol

Given the compressed nature of the show nowadays, I think 2 seasons is about the right maximum tenure for a companion; also, due to the change in show format it seems like modern companions have shorter tenures but they are actually around for more adventures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Companion_%28Doctor_Who%29#List_of_television_companions (compare appearance number of the classic companions with the new companions; don't even get me started on the book appearances)

i've never liked the quick turnaround in nu-who for either doctor or companions personally and if gillan feels that just two years is enough (rather than what moffat thinks which may or may not the same) i do still find that strange and disappointing for someone so young and unestablished tho seemingly very successful in the show. that's assuming she doesn't stick around.

nu adventure = 1 45min episode
classic adventure = 5-6 30min episodes

xp

@steven_moffat
Steven Moffat
14 eps + Matt DEFINITELY. I've got a plan and I'm NOT TELLING YOU WHAT IT IS. Now hush or River shoots you with her Spoiler Gun.#formaqueue
12 minutes ago via web

xp: I thought I addressed that with "due to the change in show format"

also most classic adventures were presented as 4-part stories by the time of Tom Baker's tenure

private eye's past who gossip has been similarly way off

you can understand why matt smith might want to replicate david tennant's epic stateside success

if River had grown up being forced to live inside a spacesuit, though, you'd think she would remember some of it. or at least, not be an ideal person to notice wonderingly that the child must have fought its way out of the spacesuit.

don't think we're meant to conclude that she's been in the spacesuit from birth to Impossible-Astronaut-age* - could be that she's been RE-kidnapped by the Silence later on, who aren't affiliated with Madame Eyepatch. But the photo of Amy and babby (I looked, think she's under six months there) in the Silenced-up children's home suggests that maybe Amy raises her there at some point, perhaps for a couple of years...

*though I admit I largely think this because I am horrified that it could be the case! But she has to learn fluent English somewhere/somewhen, as Nixon didn't have a TARDIS to translate from Silence or Vasta or whatever Melody's captors speak.

of course it is entirely possible that Alex-Kingston-River is the 5th regeneration of Time Babby, and little-girl-in-American-alley is the third.