Is this anti-semitism?

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i once heard an anti-semite (or was he? let the thread decide!) claim that Jewish doctors forced circumcision on Americans because in case the Nazis rose to power again they didn't want them to have any easy way of checking to see who was Jewish. I don't actually know how pervasive circumcision is tho in any community outside the Jewish one. If medical professionals were pushing it tho, I imagine it's bc they actually believed it was medically valuable + worth doing, which invalidates the "pro + anti circumcision equally crazy" equivocation.

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

like considering it grotesque and not doing it to your own children is cool and all but trying to ban it is really nutcase territory

OTM. educate abt your cause, and if you've got a case, people will start to come around.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

If medical professionals were pushing it tho, I imagine it's bc they actually believed it was medically valuable + worth doing, which invalidates the "pro + anti circumcision equally crazy" equivocation.

― Mordy, Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:56 AM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark

i'm willing to believe that ancient tradition and modern medicine might well be equally crazy, not that i have a horse in this race.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

xp Ancient Greece also had stigmas surrounding circumcision and Hellenized Jews who wanted to participate in the Olympics had to do a foreskin reattachment in order to compete. That mostly emerged from a culture of the sacred body and the sanctity of the male form.

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

In 1970, in my high school P.E. class, the percentage of boys with foreskins was similar to the number of boys who were jewish, at maybe 3 out of 50 for each category. Clearly, something was at work here besides jewish traditions.

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

I don't actually know how pervasive circumcision is tho in any community outside the Jewish one.

Um, it's SOP in the US. And it's also totally indefensible.

unmetalled world (wk), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think the real problem with the equivocation is that no one is trying to push a mandatory circumcision law, ppl are trying to make it illegal (here in the US and abroad).

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

fyi there are two issues of "foreskin man" -- "foreskin man no. 1" concerns doctors who love to circumcise babies, while in "foreskin man no. 2" foreskin man battles "monster mohel"

☂ (max), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

who wins?

caek, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

this guy:

☂ (max), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

The apparent medical justification for universal circumcision was the belief that boys were highly unlikely to wash their penises properly and lack of a foreskin would make hygeine much simpler for their tiny minds to encompass.

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

[while Prince Akeem is getting a bath]
Bather: The royal penis is clean, your Highness.

b.o.s.e. (banned ones still envy) (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

no one is trying to push a mandatory circumcision law

Well, it's already the status quo. Why would a law be needed?

unmetalled world (wk), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

NO MANDATORY CIRCUMCISIONS

☂ (max), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

circumcision rate in the US is well below 50% for newborns the last few years, no longer "SOP"

buzza, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

If medical professionals were pushing it tho, I imagine it's bc they actually believed it was medically valuable + worth doing, which invalidates the "pro + anti circumcision equally crazy" equivocation.

― Mordy, Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:56 AM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark

i'm willing to believe that ancient tradition and modern medicine might well be equally crazy, not that i have a horse in this race.

― orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:57 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark S

yah i wouldn't go as far as this but i don't think 'modern medicine' in general thought it was worth doing: it didn't catch on in europe anyway.

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

circumcision rate in the US is well below 50% for newborns the last few years, no longer "SOP"

― buzza, Sunday, June 5, 2011 7:03 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark

adjusts bowtie, 'i don't think it's ever been over 50%'

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think the real problem with the equivocation is that no one is trying to push a mandatory circumcision law, ppl are trying to make it illegal (here in the US and abroad).

― Mordy, Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:58 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yeah, the movement to ban male circumcision seems excessive (esp given the well-documented disease prevention benefits), don't think there's any disagreement there.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

circumcision rate in the US is well below 50% for newborns the last few years, no longer "SOP"

Ah, right. I didn't realize it had declined so much.

"91% of men born in the 1970s, and 83% of boys born in the 1980s were circumcised."

unmetalled world (wk), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Seat belts and foreskins: not just good ideas, they're the LAW!

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

adjusts bowtie, 'i don't think it's ever been over 50%'

would love to see some stats on this, esp as broken down by region, race/ethnicity, etc. based on my admittedly limited (anecdotal) experience, i'd have guessed it was well over 70% (a lowball shot in the dark) in the mid-to-late 20th century. like uncircumcised kids were damn rare where i grew up...

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

x-post comin through

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

This ILE thread becomes #1 Google hit for "circumcision" in 3...2...1...

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

no, no, it was a 'they don't circumcize women' HFJ

xpost

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

gotcha

yah i wouldn't go as far as this but i don't think 'modern medicine' in general thought it was worth doing: it didn't catch on in europe anyway

oops, i didn't mean to suggest that "modern medicine" in general might be crazy (it certainly isn't), just that this or that common medical practice/belief might well be wildly off-base.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

Not a lot of women seem emotionally caught up in this thread right now.

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

me and my bruv were both circumcised in the 70s, it was like tonsilectomy then, first sign of a problem and whip it off. but i've never had a problem whatsoever with it, dudes who are butthurt about being circumcised seem really weird to me.

banter panchali (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:12 (3 years ago) Permalink

like where's the "give me back my appendix you savages" support groups?

banter panchali (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:13 (3 years ago) Permalink

Not a lot of women seem emotionally caught up in this thread right now.

― Aimless, Sunday, June 5, 2011 2:10 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

if there could be an ilx "site description"

b.o.s.e. (banned ones still envy) (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

dudes who are butthurt about being circumcised seem really weird to me.

it's their doctors who are weird in this case

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

like where's the "give me back my appendix you savages" support groups?

― banter panchali (Noodle Vague), Sunday, June 5, 2011 11:13 AM (41 seconds ago) Bookmark

unsex organs playing catch up

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

Is it wrong to find "foreskin restoration" kind of funny?

free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

This is the next wave of stem cell research money, f'sure.

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

how could foreskin restoration not be funny. be better still if it was like property restoration and they had to match the appropriate period and style

banter panchali (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

it could not be funny (read entire link) but i won't ruin a good time :P

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

I read some article about foreskin restoration once & one guy was hanging fishing sinkers from his dong for hours on end. That's something.

free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:19 (3 years ago) Permalink

did he get a bite?

banter panchali (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

one guy was hanging fishing sinkers from his dong

Next big wave of spam emails, f'sure.

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

but i've never had a problem whatsoever with it, dudes who are butthurt about being circumcised seem really weird to me.

I don't know, more sensitivity could be good. Kind of hard to say, isn't it?

unmetalled world (wk), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

thanks buffandmaxsmom

free inappropriate education (Abbbottt), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

tooshay

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

dry but helpful

difficult listening hour, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

Meantime, Sullivan's seen the comic and all and is duly disenchanted:

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/06/the-anti-semitism-behind-san-franciscos-anti-circumcision-proposal.html

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 5 June 2011 23:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

has he determined if trig was circumcised?

buzza, Sunday, 5 June 2011 23:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

There's plenty of dumb old testament shit that people don't do anymore because people have woken up and decided to apply common sense to their lives instead of the arbitrary rules of a fer-christs-sake god. A god. Don't chop up your children until they an give informed consent, imo. I'm not saying people need to make laws or anything - this isn't on the level of murdering homosexuals or selling your daughter or whatever. But this is totally arbitrary at this point and worthy of the making of fun.

kkvgz, Sunday, 5 June 2011 23:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

i don't think there's much point to it anymore either but when the old testament was written and health and hygiene were unrecognizably different than in the modern first world it made more sense. people make up god-commandments sure but they don't just pull them out of a hat.

difficult listening hour, Sunday, 5 June 2011 23:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

or maybe they just wanted to make sure nobody was having too good a time. i dunno.

difficult listening hour, Sunday, 5 June 2011 23:30 (3 years ago) Permalink


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