Is this anti-semitism?

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"what's that? the little baby cut his head on the coffee table? WELL I THINK HE KNOWS WHERE TO GET STITCHES."

b.o.s.e. (banned ones still envy) (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

http://intactivists.blogspot.com/2011/04/intactivist-overheard.html

Quote from an intactivist mother in the United States:

To do a surgery on the sex organs of a baby for cosmetic and future sex-related reasons is a bunch of pedophilia. LADIES, I AM SAYING IT! I am tired of beating around the bush. Cutting and handling of baby genitals is medicalized pedopilia. I am telling you, I am straight up telling this to people now. Spread the word that circ is sick. It is no longer an argument of is it cleaner, better looking, the parents choice, etc. We've moved beyond that. Circumcision is here because the biggest pedophiles: Mr. Kellogg and Mr. Graham. They were such sickos that they created hospitals to torture, mutilate, and purposely traumatize children with genital torture and cutting... PEDOPHILES. And I am losing it, I can't take this country much longer. If a bill doesn't pass I'm moving to Denmark or any other place that has zero culture of mutilation. AND, for the record, I am tired of talking about it and having to educate and convince people not to f-ing cut up their own babies genitals. I am tired of talking about other peoples babies genitals. They should care more about protecting their baby from profiteering knife-wielding doctors.

Note from Intactivist.net: This frustration is all too common. People who are involved in this movement really, truly care about the children they are desperately trying to protect. Sometimes it gets to the point where we explode because it seems no one is hearing us. I heard another conversation where someone asked why does it seem like "intactivists" are crazy or sometimes even rude... that is not the intent at all. The answer given to this person was that it's just that we know too much, we know and we're trying to tell you, and we can see it so clearly for what it is, and we just want to protect children.

Strapping a baby down, or holding it down as is the case in many a bris, and then ripping apart that child's genitals and slicing parts off... does this really seem like a *sane* thing to do? Think on this for a moment, really meditate on it. Don't you agree that this should not even happen?

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

"ugh, my parents are so lame. not only is my curfew 11 pm on weekends, but they also circumcised me."

b.o.s.e. (banned ones still envy) (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

LADIES, I AM SAYING IT!

☂ (max), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

"Transferring data from www.foreskinman.com": browser status bar text you never thought you would see.

England's banh mi army (ledge), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

anyone who has an opinion either way about circumcision of other people's kids in the US or Europe to the extent that they campaign about it is crazy imo. there, i said it.

caek, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

to be fair the advantages of circumcision probably look more relevant in statistics that include the third world than they actually are to people who can shower daily and go to the doctor.

difficult listening hour, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

Have you ever heard of someone campaigning for other ppl to circumcise their kids or are u just being evenhanded?

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

do they have opinions about belly buttons?

sarahel, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

Have you ever heard of someone campaigning for other ppl to circumcise their kids or are u just being evenhanded?

― Mordy, Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:26 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark

dude

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

im pretty sure all the circumsizing parents didn't just come up with the (admittedly obvious, great, why-would-you-not) idea independently

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

like considering it grotesque and not doing it to your own children is cool and all but trying to ban it is really nutcase territory esp since not only is it not harmful and has no deleterious affects but actually has some positive correlations to things like HIV rate

^^^ seemed like a weird thing to slip in there at the end in the context of a comic book by american crazy people

caek, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

i'm not suggesting you're actually "campaigning" or whatever, but you don't really need to bring out "circumcision is good" to win an argument with these people.

caek, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

Well, my parents came up w the idea bc our family has been doing it for like two thousand years I guess xp

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:30 (3 years ago) Permalink

caek ur being weird

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

brisses are dope for the food

b.o.s.e. (banned ones still envy) (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:31 (3 years ago) Permalink

My original comment wasn't a response to comic writers but to contenderizer

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think my initial knee-jerk response when i first heard about this intactivist movement was that it was something along the lines of a reactionary men's rights type thing because of all the focus on anti-female circumcision.

sarahel, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

brisses are dope for the food

all that christian blood

difficult listening hour, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:34 (3 years ago) Permalink

Zayde did a lot of campaigning tbh cause he was jonesing to be a sandek

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

Have you ever heard of someone campaigning for other ppl to circumcise their kids or are u just being evenhanded?

― Mordy, Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:26 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark

have no idea what things are like today, but i've been told that when i was a kid (late 60s, 70s), non-circumcision was frowned on in america, seen as kooky and unhygienic, that medical professionals strongly encouraged parents of male children to circumcise. maybe this was a product of my parents' american culture, and not the national standard, i dunno. i.e., in america, this is a campaign against a pervasive social norm, not against an opposing team.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

^ a big garbled, but i think the gist is p clear.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

i think my initial knee-jerk response when i first heard about this intactivist movement was that it was something along the lines of a reactionary men's rights type thing because of all the focus on anti-female circumcision.

― sarahel, Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:32 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah, i thought the same thing. that may have helped fuel the fire, but in the long run, i think it has more to do with our culture of sacred babyhood and the anxieties abt western medicine that spurred the anti-vaccination movement.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:54 (3 years ago) Permalink

i once heard an anti-semite (or was he? let the thread decide!) claim that Jewish doctors forced circumcision on Americans because in case the Nazis rose to power again they didn't want them to have any easy way of checking to see who was Jewish. I don't actually know how pervasive circumcision is tho in any community outside the Jewish one. If medical professionals were pushing it tho, I imagine it's bc they actually believed it was medically valuable + worth doing, which invalidates the "pro + anti circumcision equally crazy" equivocation.

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

like considering it grotesque and not doing it to your own children is cool and all but trying to ban it is really nutcase territory

OTM. educate abt your cause, and if you've got a case, people will start to come around.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

If medical professionals were pushing it tho, I imagine it's bc they actually believed it was medically valuable + worth doing, which invalidates the "pro + anti circumcision equally crazy" equivocation.

― Mordy, Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:56 AM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark

i'm willing to believe that ancient tradition and modern medicine might well be equally crazy, not that i have a horse in this race.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

xp Ancient Greece also had stigmas surrounding circumcision and Hellenized Jews who wanted to participate in the Olympics had to do a foreskin reattachment in order to compete. That mostly emerged from a culture of the sacred body and the sanctity of the male form.

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

In 1970, in my high school P.E. class, the percentage of boys with foreskins was similar to the number of boys who were jewish, at maybe 3 out of 50 for each category. Clearly, something was at work here besides jewish traditions.

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

I don't actually know how pervasive circumcision is tho in any community outside the Jewish one.

Um, it's SOP in the US. And it's also totally indefensible.

unmetalled world (wk), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think the real problem with the equivocation is that no one is trying to push a mandatory circumcision law, ppl are trying to make it illegal (here in the US and abroad).

Mordy, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

fyi there are two issues of "foreskin man" -- "foreskin man no. 1" concerns doctors who love to circumcise babies, while in "foreskin man no. 2" foreskin man battles "monster mohel"

☂ (max), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

who wins?

caek, Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

this guy:

☂ (max), Sunday, 5 June 2011 17:59 (3 years ago) Permalink

The apparent medical justification for universal circumcision was the belief that boys were highly unlikely to wash their penises properly and lack of a foreskin would make hygeine much simpler for their tiny minds to encompass.

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

[while Prince Akeem is getting a bath]
Bather: The royal penis is clean, your Highness.

b.o.s.e. (banned ones still envy) (J0rdan S.), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

no one is trying to push a mandatory circumcision law

Well, it's already the status quo. Why would a law be needed?

unmetalled world (wk), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

NO MANDATORY CIRCUMCISIONS

☂ (max), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

circumcision rate in the US is well below 50% for newborns the last few years, no longer "SOP"

buzza, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

If medical professionals were pushing it tho, I imagine it's bc they actually believed it was medically valuable + worth doing, which invalidates the "pro + anti circumcision equally crazy" equivocation.

― Mordy, Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:56 AM (26 seconds ago) Bookmark

i'm willing to believe that ancient tradition and modern medicine might well be equally crazy, not that i have a horse in this race.

― orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:57 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark S

yah i wouldn't go as far as this but i don't think 'modern medicine' in general thought it was worth doing: it didn't catch on in europe anyway.

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:03 (3 years ago) Permalink

circumcision rate in the US is well below 50% for newborns the last few years, no longer "SOP"

― buzza, Sunday, June 5, 2011 7:03 PM (19 seconds ago) Bookmark

adjusts bowtie, 'i don't think it's ever been over 50%'

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think the real problem with the equivocation is that no one is trying to push a mandatory circumcision law, ppl are trying to make it illegal (here in the US and abroad).

― Mordy, Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:58 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yeah, the movement to ban male circumcision seems excessive (esp given the well-documented disease prevention benefits), don't think there's any disagreement there.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

circumcision rate in the US is well below 50% for newborns the last few years, no longer "SOP"

Ah, right. I didn't realize it had declined so much.

"91% of men born in the 1970s, and 83% of boys born in the 1980s were circumcised."

unmetalled world (wk), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Seat belts and foreskins: not just good ideas, they're the LAW!

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:07 (3 years ago) Permalink

adjusts bowtie, 'i don't think it's ever been over 50%'

would love to see some stats on this, esp as broken down by region, race/ethnicity, etc. based on my admittedly limited (anecdotal) experience, i'd have guessed it was well over 70% (a lowball shot in the dark) in the mid-to-late 20th century. like uncircumcised kids were damn rare where i grew up...

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

x-post comin through

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

This ILE thread becomes #1 Google hit for "circumcision" in 3...2...1...

Aimless, Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

no, no, it was a 'they don't circumcize women' HFJ

xpost

if xtm & dj chucky ft. annia could fly something something love (history mayne), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

gotcha

yah i wouldn't go as far as this but i don't think 'modern medicine' in general thought it was worth doing: it didn't catch on in europe anyway

oops, i didn't mean to suggest that "modern medicine" in general might be crazy (it certainly isn't), just that this or that common medical practice/belief might well be wildly off-base.

orchestral pygnoeuvres in zee park (contenderizer), Sunday, 5 June 2011 18:10 (3 years ago) Permalink


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