ODD FUTURE WOLF GANG KILL THEM ALL

http://www.paulmcguire.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/article_luciferian_pyramid.jpg

something that attacks me personally

in general I would say it is always a mug's game to approach art as if it is directed at you personally.

xp

would listen to that album

xp

are you saying Tyler treats Syd like shit? really now

are you actually for-real gonna come w/"some of his best friends are lesbian"

just out of curiosity, are there other women in the OF entourage/circle or is there just like her and then earl's mom

hey croup's the one that made it into a personal THIS IS WHAT THEY DO IN REAL LIFE thing. which is just ridiculous on I dunno how many levels.

xp

yes, that's exactly what I did

I hear Danzig unrepentantly kills children. and Hasil Adkins keeps a girl's head in his TV set!

when I said "unrepentantly treat them like shit" I was talking on the most literal, unilateral level possible, OF literally treating all women and homosexuals like dookie

glad shakey's here to point out the flaws in that assumption, to make me realize that they don't actually put every lesbian in sight in a toilet bowl

do tell

i just did, or was that an xpost

OF is clearly an act that revels in doing things for shock value. If you want to rob something of it's shock value, the key is, duh, not to allow yourself to be shocked by it. Ignore it.

privilege.txt

lol

Tyler's brand of misogyny and homophobia is just a joke to him (in my opinion), whereas Eminem (for example) seemed to have some serious issues with women and gays. Tyler is a glorified internet troll trying to get a rise out of people just for kicks, and trying to have a grown-up conversation about gender, sexuality, etc. concerning an artist who doesn't take things seriously is bound to come off as moralizing and humorless, even if the issues being raised are incredibly worthwhile. It's like getting upset that Gwar glorifies violence. Even if you're right, it makes you sound like you're not actually engaging with the art in question, its meaning, its style. Sara's blog post sounds like all she knows about Tyler is that there are offensive lyrics in there, much like when the Catholic League boycotts a movie they haven't even seen.

pls to explain a more effective way to rob something of its shock value

xp

Thanking all of u for the most entertaining reading I've done in days. Near as I can suss out, Shakey is personally offended by the presence of corporate advertising on fucking BART trains but not by whatever is going on here. Also, if lesbians can't change people's minds they should keep their fool mouths shut. Or something.

seems like kind of a funny thing to ask of their peers when their peers appear to already be doing an awful lot of talking/thinking/writing about these guys tbh. but what do I know - sum total of blog posts/reviews I have read about this band = 2. maybe most of the articles about them do not address the homophobiz/violence/mysogyny. I kind of doubt it tho, it seems awful central to their music.

OTM. I must be reading all the wrong reviews and discussions because all but one (a dumb "fuck yeah" blog on the LA Times website) have spent a long time engaging with OF's bigoted language. People are already thinking about this - I assume T&S's aim is bigger than that.

polyphonic OTM

xpost maybe they meant "think harder"

― underrated earl sweatshirt fans i have boned (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:34 PM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark

OTM. I must be reading all the wrong reviews and discussions because all but one (a dumb "fuck yeah" blog on the LA Times website) have spent a long time engaging with OF's bigoted language. People are already thinking about this - I assume T&S's aim is bigger than that.

i think this current wave of discussion is a reaction to the wave of largely-unquestioning hype that got them here in the first place - obv i don't read p4k but i read somewhere say that they've been huge supporters for months and in that time hadn't really tackled the rapeyness/homophobia - and not just critics, there's the unquestioning support of the music industry, too - like eg richard russell, the straight white man with the critically beloved and supposedly super-ethical record label who signed tyler and basically made his current profile what it is - it's those people that i feel sara is aiming at, as well as the supposedly liberal indie kids who constitute a large portion of the OF audience

xpost Does "thinking harder" mean "thinking until you agree 100% with Tegan and Sara"?

actual sentence in pitchfork's "best o' OF" piece: Here's Bastard's basic appeal in one punchline: "Cruisin' in my go-kart at Walmart selling cupcakes/ Go 'head, admit it, faggot; this shit is tighter than butt-rape."

another (for context): More importantly, though, Bastard is just a straight-up great rap album, the first from the Odd Future camp.

xp: that certainly appeals to the basic

hey at the very least i know who tegan and sara are now! didn't before.

still haven't heard their music though.

xpost

polyphonic

minnesota, close enough to canada i guess :/

http://southwestminneapolis.patch.com/articles/senate-passes-anti-gay-marriage-ban-despite-dfl-opposition

Tyler's brand of misogyny and homophobia is just a joke to him (in my opinion), whereas Eminem (for example) seemed to have some serious issues with women and gays. Tyler is a glorified internet troll trying to get a rise out of people just for kicks, and trying to have a grown-up conversation about gender, sexuality, etc. concerning an artist who doesn't take things seriously is bound to come off as moralizing and humorless, even if the issues being raised are incredibly worthwhile. It's like getting upset that Gwar glorifies violence. Even if you're right, it makes you sound like you're not actually engaging with the art in question, its meaning, its style. Sara's blog post sounds like all she knows about Tyler is that there are offensive lyrics in there, much like when the Catholic League boycotts a movie they haven't even seen.

― polyphonic, Thursday, May 19, 2011 2:02 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is otm only in a very narrow sense -- yes it's pretty clear that Sara doesn't "get it" w/r/t to Tyler's meaning within rap or in relation to previous rap controversies (Em) etc, or the troll-y as opposed to honestly rage-ful nature of what he does (vs. an old-time rap boogeyman like professor griff or somebody)

but on the other hand, polyphonic, this misses the point entirely. why should you need to be grounded in all that shit? shakey called the act of speaking w/o that grounding borderline racist. that's nuts. is it all well and good to yell faggot a bunch of times in a song? is it or isn't it? what complaint could she have made at OF's support at growing fame, beyond a directly personal one? this shit about 'proper tactics' is just lame. i mean jesus.

still trying to get over listening to tune yard the other night on youtube. but i'll get to T&S soon.

I dunno, this was part of the discourse from the beginning, both on this thread and in the blog world, it's not like everybody ignored this aspect of what they were doing

xp to lex

second google result for odd future

On Odd Future, Rape and Murder, And Why We Sometimes Like the Things That Repel Us
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/2010/11/on_odd_future_r.php

― death panel of the mods (Edward III), Thursday, November 18, 2010 1:46 PM (6 months ago) Bookmark

wonder exactly what it says about me that it is possible that I am less offended or irritated by the homophobia in that quoted couplet than I am by the fact that dude tried to rhyme "cupcakes" with "butt-rape"

good thing you haven't seen the lets make our own rap song thread wait

goole otm

"her offense at this person's purposefully offensive speech did not follow the correct rules of the game the offender set up. failure to recognize semi-ironic 'faggot', 5 yd penalty, repeat 2nd down."

but on the other hand, polyphonic, this misses the point entirely. why should you need to be grounded in all that shit? shakey called the act of speaking w/o that grounding borderline racist. that's nuts. is it all well and good to yell faggot a bunch of times in a song? is it or isn't it? what complaint could she have made at OF's support at growing fame, beyond a directly personal one? this shit about 'proper tactics' is just lame. i mean jesus.

I have no issue with Sara's response. I basically agree with everything she said. But I think her argument would be that much stronger if she actually analyzed the record and talked about it.

oh man if that was "semi-ironic 'n*****'" I would be sporting a new display name

or maybe all the faggot rapey shit put her off? fuck, it's life, not homework

xp

I have no issue with Sara's response. I basically agree with everything she said. But I think her argument would be that much stronger if she actually analyzed the record and talked about it.

― polyphonic, Thursday, May 19, 2011 3:22 PM (37 seconds ago) Bookmark

but then it'd be a record review, and nobody wants to read those

haha

walking with a ghost is actually a really good song imo btw for those of you who never heard of t+s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNylyGG7kNI

is it all well and good to yell faggot a bunch of times in a song? is it or isn't it?

imho it is all well and good to yell whatever the fuck you want in a song. whether or not the resulting song is any good is highly debatable.

what complaint could she have made at OF's support at growing fame, beyond a directly personal one?

I don't think she had anything to gain by addressing fans/critics/peers/whatever and telling them how they should react to it. I do think an EVEN MORE personal explanation of how she interacts/was affected by the album would have been more, I dunno... useful? effective? therapeutic? finger-wagging is never a good look when it comes to aesthetics.

xp

i apologize if this has been already been pointed out, but there's a little 'privilege.txt' in baron's piece that might earn a "think harder" from a lesbian:

But let's not let ourselves off the hook that easily--we don't actually want to ponder rape, say, nor identify with those who perpetrate it. (I don't think, anyway; torture porn perplexes me for this exact reason.) There's something else at work here. Odd Future and the acts from which they've descended make us confront a kind of disgust that is mercifully absent from our everyday lives.

"her offense at this person's purposefully offensive speech did not follow the correct rules of the game the offender set up. failure to recognize semi-ironic 'faggot', 5 yd penalty, repeat 2nd down."

― goole, Thursday, May 19, 2011 3:22 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol

i always get pumped as heck when i hear walkin with a freakin ghost

is it all well and good to yell faggot a bunch of times in a song? is it or isn't it?

imho it is all well and good to yell whatever the fuck you want in a song. whether or not the resulting song is any good is highly debatable.

it's all well & good to yell whatever you want in a song, but yelling faggot a bunch of times in the specific way that tyler does - that is what makes the resulting songs bad

finger-wagging is never a good look when it comes to aesthetics.

um, sometimes it is, otherwise you are basically a-okaying hoodies with screenshots from "A Serbian Film" on them

ade i dunno if yer being sarcastic or not but i really do like walking with a ghost!

that song is terrible but I'm not from canada, things must be different up there

im totally serious forks! it seems like music that ilm would consider uncool to talk about but i am way down with teegs & sarah.