Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Front to back / back to front - you know what I mean! River shouldn't ever have to ask "have we done that thing yet," because if she remembers it, he hasn't done it. If their timelines are actually reversed.

But you don't need to flip through a book and ask "have we done this yet, have we done that" if one of you is living the book left to right and the other is living it right to left

I was thinking that

then I got to feeling gently sad about what she said about "one day I'll meet him and he won't recognise me at all and it'll be the death of me", and what if they aren't actually reversed but she really believed that

(this post is either stating the obvious or reminding people of things they don't want to be reminded of until they get revisited by the series, so, apologies either way I guess)

xxpost- which is why I hate all that "Rose and the Doctor get it on in a parallel universe" nonsense. Dr Who never has and never should be about romance. Jesus it makes me mad. One of the best things about the old school, I'm thinking Pertwee/Baker era is precisely that he is sexless. When you are a time lord with the ability to travel through space and time, getting your rocks off goes quite low down in your list of priorities. I hate it the most because it is playing for an audience who otherwise wouldn't watch (lets get the mums involved type schtick) I know I look like a purist, but some things work and shouldn't be changed. Again I say, if I wanted that type of slushy programme, I'd watch it. Don't try and make Dr Who sexy!

tbh I am quite happy that they are continuing the grand Who tradition of hiring ridiculously beautiful actresses, only now giving them more to do than just scream in a corner; every companion in the new series has been much more in the Sara Jane/Leela mold than the Victoria mold and the series has been much stronger for it, so I can cheerfully pretend the Doctor sexytime stuff isn't happening (and even then it's sometimes great, as in Martha's case where it was unrequited and drove a good bit of the actor chemistry)

then I got to feeling gently sad about what she said about "one day I'll meet him and he won't recognise me at all and it'll be the death of me", and what if they aren't actually reversed but she really believed that

That's why I'm having trouble with it - River is the only person who has outright said they live backwards with respect to each other, I think, but she's also the person who ought to have sufficient evidence that they don't. Unless River and the Doctor came up with the diary thing when they weren't sure what order they were meeting in, and she sticks with it out of habit, but I don't know. It feels more like Moffat had two ideas he liked - the diaries and River's sadness at realizing their first kiss is their last kiss - and used them both even though they don't work together.

yet another nitpick, where did the 1969 US gov get the tech for building the doctor's cell? They have all this collapsed star what-have-you super dense material, and a fancy futuristic electronic anti-grav looking door, none of which phases Canton more than a video phone, and yet they still have to use rocket tech to get to the moon.

xxpost Don't get me wrong, I like the eye candy. Amy is possibly the hottest assistant ever, and the sara jane/leela mold is a great description. I am just wary that we could lose the plots to slushy nonsense. I am a big fan of River because she is strong female lead. My personal favourite was Donna, total legend. Feel like I should go and write a dissertation on Dr Who and the role of women, but you now, can't be bothered.

Bring on the next episode!

xp: They had all of the alien stuff in Area 51 to draw upon, plus The Doctor himself was likely covertly nudging them down the correct path since he wanted the room built in the first place.

plus The Doctor himself was likely covertly nudging them down the correct path since he wanted the room built in the first place.

yes this is fairly strongly hinted at with his "gosh at a casual eyeing for the first time, I exactly recognise what material that is and what it's properties are, gosh what a surprise that you have that to lock me up in, such a surprise" speech

Oh, I was wondering abt ledge's question too but I kept forgetting to ask.

Question I may kick myself for not remembering the answer to: has Area 51 been mentioned in a Doctor Who episode? Is "alien stuff in Area 51" officially part of the Doctor Who 60s universe?

at this point i would like to complain about the most OTT thunderstorm ever during the kids home investigation.

lol

SB'd you for that

re Area 51: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamland_%28Doctor_Who%29

Thats the animated series isn't it? Never seen that. Any good?

no because it has Greys

I thought it had been mentioned in passing in another story...

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Area_51

Apparently in Sarah Jane Adventures, not regular canon Who

i thought the first Dalek episode of nu-Who took place in area 51, but i just checked and it actually took place in Utah. I also forgot that it introduced Adam - just about one of the least memorable companions ever, but i guess that was the point of his character.

Obviously, River and the Doctor aren't living literally back-to-front and she must have known this because didn't she only just meet the Doctor at two different points in his life at the same time (future dead doctor, and doctor who hasn't kissed her yet)? but it's true generally speaking, i suppose.

btw anyone considered that the Time Child is their baby and not Amy's? Maybe the picture was a red herring, like "here is doctor-babby and her aunt amy".

I did consider that

Other things to consider: River is Time Babby, Amy is Time Babby

I wonder if Moffatt ever saw the thing Lawrence Miles did in the books with the humanoid TARDISes

Neil Gaiman, on the other hand...

I hated almost all the romantic stuff in the Rusty era (exception being the Girl In The Fireplace and maybe some of the stuff with Rose's dad) but the emotional dynamic in the Tardis at the moment is fantastic. Almost welled up a bit when River realised that was the last time she'd kiss the Doctor (except it might not be, I doubt the timelines are as straightforward as River thinks they are). Like that the Doctor is in some ways the most clueless person in the Tardis right now.

There seemed to be big holes in this episode but I'd be very surprised if it isn't revisited in the finale or before. We're definitely going to see Canton again, and no way is that the end of the Silence.

Regenerating child was a proper wau moment though, didn't see that coming AT ALL, but there has to be a way out of Rusty's kill-all-the-Timelords cul-de-sac and a second generation would be a straightforward way to do that. Also, the Doctor had a granddaughter once upon a time, which suggest sex at some point, not ruling out River being a second-gen Timelord.

I was okay with the moon-landing footage bit, it just about makes sense.

Did we ever find out what actually caused the crack in the end, or is that still to come?

Next week's looks much more straightforward but still fun though, who's writing it? Surely they can't fuck up a pirate episode.

I thought it was the explosion of the TARDIS at the end of last season that caused the crack...?

yep. first explosion of the Tardis caused the cracks, the second explosion (occurring at the same time as the first) fixed the cracks and everything that had disappeared in them - Rory, Amy's parents, etc.

Like that the Doctor is in some ways the most clueless person in the Tardis right now.

^^this. Also surprisingly liking Rory now after his whole 2000 years guarding the pandorica bit.

Things still unresolved:

1) future Doctor death
2) weird eye-patch lady who Amy sees just before she comes across little-girl astronaut/time-babby.
3) little-girl astronaut.
4) Astronaut what killed the doctor, if it isn't the same little-girl astronaut
5) the tardis that the silence built/the (different? same?) abandoned tardis that flew off in The Lodger.
6) Amy's fluctuating pregnancy.

anything else?

oh and I love Canton/Romo Lampkin. He's super fun as Crowley on Supernatural too.

“But finally,” Mr. Panetta said, “Admiral McCraven came back and said that he had picked up the word ‘Geronimo,’ which was the code word that represented that they got Bin Laden.”

River is Time Babby, Amy is Time Babby

TIME BABBY IS THE MASTER

Romana/Rasilo/The Rani/All of Gallifrey

Rory is A ROMAN. Eh?

he was a Roman, but he got better

Also unresolved - why the Silence were bothering to manipulate human history and building a Tardis in the first place.

So they could get into James Corden's Spare bedroom.

Next week's looks much more straightforward but still fun though, who's writing it? Surely they can't fuck up a pirate episode

Steve Thompson, who doesn't seem to have done much before. Although he wrote the second episode of Sherlock, which was the weakest of the three imo.

I had actually considered the Time Babby as The Master, but I think the Moff is keeping the lid on that character for the time being. It could be an interesting move to bring back the TIme Lords, but not so soon after the massive damp squib of the Rusty finale. First half was like OMG IT'S THE TIMELORDS WHOA! then come the second episode they're dispatched with easily enough and it's 20 minutes of sentimentality.

I do know Corden is coming back. I don't think that's any big secret. But not until the second half of this season. The Frances Barber character is being revealed quite soon I think, but who she is, good/bad/whatever I know not.

I have a friend who's being a bit grumpy about the whole enterprise. Feels Moffat is throwing in too many unanswered questions and plot points at the expense of story and emotional engagement. I can sympathise with that up to a point - there's a danger it could all get a bit too clever - but it's early days yet. Plus I'm really intrigued by TIME BABBY!!!

Sorry if I'm being a bit spoilerific - I'm a little tipsy.

I do know Corden is coming back.

Arrrrrrrrrgh fuck off.

Hey, I'm just the messenger! :) This was widely trailed well before the season started. As insufferable as I find him when he's being himself, he was fine in The Lodger. I guess the Clown we saw in the season trailer has something to do with the clown in the painting in Craig's hallway in The Lodger... Maybe some connection to the Silence? Or perhaps Craig has a particularly unlucky flat in that it's hosted two baddies.

That Cordon reveal would have had aldo hung, drawn and quartered.

I really enjoyed the creepy forget-what-I-just-saw concept of the Silents. Creepy enough to have me seeing them where they weren't, such as hanging upside down on the wall pretending to be a woman in a white dress.

http://i53.tinypic.com/17be4y.jpg

Hey, I'm just the messenger! :)

So fucking don't be.

This was widely trailed well before the season started.

...no it fucking wasn't. We* literally did not get any in-series promotional material in-house until four days before UK TX of the first ep (10 days before ours) and have not shown anything beyond week-to-week trails

*ie ʞɹ0ʍ ʇɐ

To be fair, my 'fuck off' was at the presence of Corden, not at the spoiler. I don't really mind as long as it's not an explicit plot reveal.

cordren is the time babby. also, why do british people hate him? who is he?

He's a deeply unfunny and obnoxious 'comedian'.

he was good in his dr who ep though

He had a beef with Capt. Picard, yeah?

He's a perfectly fine actor, possibly even good. But he's been everywhere for the last few years, which would make everyone sick of him even if his public persona wasn't a loutish, thick, ladsy gobshite. And it is. So everyone really hates him.

He's a perfectly fine actor, possibly even good.

Also a v. good writer (co-wrote Gavin and Stacey). I think the hate is disproportionate, but then again I don't pay much attention to his laddish gobshitery (he was a bit rude to Patrick Stewart and a bit rude to um, her that won the Mercury Music Prize - Speech Debelle, was it?), and only really watch him in things he's acting in rather than being himself. His presence doesn't stop me watching things (see also over-reaction to initial introduction of Catherine Tate, a very good character actress with a terrible TV sketch show), but I had no idea he was coming back and feel a little spoiled now. I don't think I'd even have considered the connections to The Lodger had it not been brought up in this thread, tbh.

btw, I do read a lot of internets and watch a lot of telly and read a few newspapers, so it's not like I'm hermetically sealed off from news and deliberately-placed spoilers. But the return of Corden is news to me.

I would have figured Frances Barber to be famous enough not to be throwaway "woman with eyepatch" to assume she'd be back at some point.

I was thinking River was in the suit but surely she would have remembered that whole setting and wouldn't have been as shocked as Amy and Rory, so now I don't know who it was.

My guess is that it was River Song in the suit, and that she was deliberately missing when she shot the astronaut?

However my theory that River Song is a future regeneration of the Doctor is pretty much shot now they've snogged.

Jeezo, sorry I spoke! But then some people think that an episode's title is a spoiler. I thought the Corden thing was quite widely known. They announced a whole bunch of actors who were going to appear in this season. I suppose it's a bit different because we know who Corden's character is, but even then, it hardly ruins everything does it?

re spoilers: seems to me that the rule of thumb with this particular DW thread is if it hasn't aired yet, don't mention it. don't know why but people do get so worked up.