Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Dont care, that one was DUMB

it was FUN

the one thing that really annoyed me about this on first watch [ :D ɐɥ ɐɥ obɐ sʎɐp ɹnoɟ] was that at the end of ep 1, the space suit was clearly one kid on another kid's shoulders, trying to look too grown up and tough to mess with - the clunky walk, the hands not being able to move - and this careful reading was proven INCORRECT

The whole thing seemed kind of like a big improv game, like someone else had made the trailer we saw last week with all the cool things in it--Doctor in a straitjacket with a beard (looking very like Jeremy Davies)! Walls with GET OUT written on them! Amy and Rory and River with writing all over them! River diving off a building!--and handed it to the people who make the actual programme and said "now get out of this in 45 minutes". So it was all a bit too frantic. Any one of those things on its own could have been the cool centrepiece image of a whole episode.

That said, I thought that Team Tardis gelled really well this episode. I'm not really looking forward to piratey hijinks next week, except that I always look forward to Hugh Bonneville.

The writing-on-face device is exceptionally effective in cranking up the suspense. Amy would be mark-free, then she'd turn her head and turn back and her face would suddenly be covered in marks and you'd be OHHHH SHIIIIT

^ that actually threw the sequence off a bit for me, it must have taken her hours in that room seeing the aliens, finding a pen, finding the current set of marks on her arm or hand, adding a line to it, putting the pen away, getting distracted and looking, continuing to look around the room... spotting an alien, finding her pen... and meanwhile Canton is still just making small talk with the doctor/manager/caretaker/whatever?

at the start, Rory and Amy have been wearing the exact same clothes for three months straight, without changing. With genital hygiene like that, it's no wonder her baby is some freakish Schrodingerian flux event.

Do Englishers salute with the palm forward, and USAmericans with the blade fwd?

tally marks on face irritated me bcz how was she supposed to make tally marks on her face without breaking eye contact in order to look into a mirror?

(it also annoyed me that a hologram of a silent based on a photo should have the same hypnotic-suggestion effect as an irl silent - which moff did before with the angels, this idea that the image of the thing is the same as the thing itself - but i recognise that it was necessary for the denouement to actually work. nevertheless it would be nice not to see this again for a little while.)

also i rly thought that they were going to go somewhere with "rome fell" and "silence will fall" but... apparently not.

agree strongly with those those niggles - the face ones work for River bcz she's had months to collect them and probably saw Silents coming up to scare her while she was doing her lipstick dozens of times

I think the "Rome fell" is very definitely there to let some viewers connect it to the empire (as it is called in the episode) of the Silence collapsing, without doing a big giant "SILENCE WILL FALL, DO YOU SEE?" to underline it - especially as we don't actually know the sinister meaning of "SSILENCCE WILLL FALL" yet

i think the daftest thing was recorded documentation of Silence eroding itself over time. presumably the worldwide purge of the Silence was heavily documented by humans after 1969 whether on paper of computers but somehow this all just ceased to exist leaving no memory of them by 2011? gaaah. maybe the crack in time from last year helped...

but it was quite neat (initially confusing) of Moffat to start having the audience 'forget' Silent sightings with the character (Canton in the TARDIS, Amy in the home).

in the little flashback at the start a Silent calls Canton by name so was wondering why and if it had a specific message for him

the bit where Amy sees cyborgy Frances Barber thru the door was a total wtf - premonition or future echo i guess but v cool

the spacesuit's ability to operate without someone inside suggests there may have been no-one in there when it killed the doctor

after all this, the actual silence at the end of vampires in venice seems to be a clunky red herring

the spacesuit's ability to operate without someone inside suggests there may have been no-one in there when it killed the doctor

You do see a bit of chin, though, as it opens the sun visor

Really dug this again. And I liked the explanation for the static that Neil Armstrong always maintains muffed his 'giant leap for A man' line, but that nobody else can ever hear

so theoretically a child can regenerate into someone who looks much older/adult (but surely not River)

theoretically a Time Lord can regenerate into any age/appearance

i think the daftest thing was recorded documentation of Silence eroding itself over time. presumably the worldwide purge of the Silence was heavily documented by humans after 1969 whether on paper of computers but somehow this all just ceased to exist leaving no memory of them by 2011?

no bcz a) people forget about them by the time they would go to write something down* and b) the purge is ongoing, the Silence are still around in present-day Who Earth

* let's say the bodies wipe themselves out like Joy's, or something

the spacesuit's ability to operate without someone inside suggests there may have been no-one in there when it killed the doctor

do we see the spacesuit operating by itself?

i think a purge on that scale would lead to so much documentation tho (esp. filmed), enough for people to be reminded often enough. ah well.

you see the spacesuit hand move while river is examining it (and doing rather a lot of exposition by suggesting the Silence allowed the girl to escape the suit, "giving her independence"), repairing itself.

no, she said they gave her independence by letting her walk around the warehouse in the suit and phone the president - her exposition talks about how the girl must be incredibly strong because she tore herself out of the suit, past all the various bits of alien tech

I thought the hand moving was bcz River tweaked a bit of wiring - the girl's arms are not long enough to reach the gloves so mechanical means would be necessary to make the hands move anyway

nah remember, at the same time River's asking the Doctor whether he thinks the suit could move by itself, and saying 'maybe when the little girl said the spaceman was coming after her to eat her, it really was' or something like that (not that i recall the little girl saying the spaceman was coming to 'eat' her but w/e)

i think a purge on that scale would lead to so much documentation tho (esp. filmed), enough for people to be reminded often enough. ah well.

surely if you're reminded often enough that means your brain is wiped often enough and you end up like the old man in the orphanage!

except now with the new 'kill on sight' order presumably you also keep having bouts of inexplicable homicidal rage

surely if you're reminded often enough that means your brain is wiped often enough

this'll do nicely, thx :)

I'd forgotten about the Frances Barber in the door bit. They're setting up something interesting there. What did she say to Amy again?

Re: Timehead. I recall a comment from the Moff about how there had never been a married couple in the Tardis before. At the time this just seemed like a reference to the relationship dynamic, but now I can't help but read it as an early hint of the timey-wimey conception that's being set up. The Tardis's power makes Timelord babies. And who does little girl regenerate into? Frances Barber?
I think the notion that she's River Song is a red herring. She'd be crossing her own timeline, and although she's obviously holding things back from the Doctor, she surely wouldn't hold THAT back. Or maybe she doesn't know. And I'm not sure the 'killing the best man in the universe' thing refers to the Doctor. It's just a bit too obvious.

The thot plickens...

Here's a ridiculous notion: the little girl regenerates into... The Doctor! So the Doctor has to engineer the death of one of his paradoxical iterations...

Another great ep. I love the kid-friendly way Moffatt deals with dangling plot threads at the end (as in yesterday's ep and "The Big Bang") -- with Matt Smith basically saying, "Er, I guess we still haven't find out about the Silents/the kid in the astronaut suit/etc, but I'll guess we'll find out in an upcoming episode..."

nah remember, at the same time River's asking the Doctor whether he thinks the suit could move by itself, and saying 'maybe when the little girl said the spaceman was coming after her to eat her, it really was'

I figured this could be that the Silents were trying to get her into the suit, but she couldn't remember them, just the suit...

also confusing: is she not meant to be IN the suit when she makes all of the phone calls? does she remember that she's in it, then, or...?

Here's a ridiculous notion: the little girl regenerates into... The Doctor! So the Doctor has to engineer the death of one of his paradoxical iterations...

this was my first thought! but no point in speculating any more about this as it will presumably develop every week...

so sad when River realized this was the last kiss she would ever share with the doctor b/c it was the first he had with her

― Mordy, Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:25 AM (6 hours ago)

I hated this because I was hoping that all the romantic stuff between River and the Doctor was an elaborate con on her part. We don't need any more sexy doctor shit, thanks.

is the idea that river and the doctor's sexy adventures may now have been unwritten?

mmm Time Lord coprophilia

one thing i liked about last weeks's re Gayagenda Return was that Canton's "yes" re wedding illegality was a reference both relatively subtle and not played for laughs (but i smirked anyway). this felt like a first for DW. it probably justified the more comical p(g)ayoff with Canton and Nixon at the end of DOTM too. any more thoughts on that most welcome.

I don't know what that was but I enjoyed it. also sorry, but I totally love River/Doctor which is weird because I hated all that crap during Tennant's era. I think it's the sadness of seeing a relationship progressing in reverse? or maybe just because River Song is badass.

no bcz a) people forget about them by the time they would go to write something down* and b) the purge is ongoing, the Silence are still around in present-day Who Earth

can buy this but a little bothered by the fact that Amy made no move to kill the Silence the first time she sees one. Surely the memory of the original directive still exists, unless Amelia Pond has never once seen footage of the moon landing. which is conceivable I guess but also unlikely.

"wibbly wobbly"

^ yes this is a giant fuckup in re Amy and Rory and River

xpost

iirc "Eyepatch Woman", as Frances Barber was designated in the credits, said something, not necessarily to Amy, about "I think she's dreaming". Make of that what you will in re: phantom pregnancies and "kill all aliens" directives

They never knew that Amy had met the girl in the suit in the house, so I thought that it might have been Amy that ripped the girl out the suit, going "yoouurre my timmey wiiiimmmey dauuugghhhtterrr!!!"

The girl is definitely affected by being in utero within the tardis, like Rose was affected by the Tardis in the whole Bad Wolf fiasco.

Frances Barber will have her revenge on the Silence.

sorry, but I totally love River/Doctor which is weird because I hated all that crap during Tennant's era. I think it's the sadness of seeing a relationship progressing in reverse? or maybe just because River Song is badass.

This is exactly how I feel.

Nothing much else to say, haven't really decided how I felt abt yesterday's. Was left with a slight feeling that it was missing something, but not sure if that's just frustration at having to wait all series to get the loose ends tied up.

(Also had higher expectations for this series than for previous ones, so easier to dash, I suppose. At the start of the last series I was excited by the promise of Moffat but not sure I'd like Smith.)

what's so bad about the silence?

if they've been around for thousands of years directing all human history... did they only make the bad stuff happen?

weird that people only in 1969 work out how to remind themselves

there were some proper good bits in that ep tho

can buy this but a little bothered by the fact that Amy made no move to kill the Silence the first time she sees one

that was before the doctor put the message in the apollo broadcast. even though it was after the apollo mission. "wibbly wobbly", as aldo said.

it was a pretty silly solution -- people forget them unless it's linked to something memorable -- but there are so many loose ends it almost seems forgivable.

possibly i've forgotten the end of last week, but the start of this week confused me more than it should. they sort of skated over how amy didn't shoot the kid, and i don't get how the feds came to have a 'shoot on sight' policy for the tardis team.

yeah that is a puzzle.

Amy hit the helmet but missed the kid's head. They showed a shot of the kid screaming but unhurt with a bullet hole in the visor in this episode.

The "shoot on sight" policy didn't need an explicit reason considering that the dude doing the shooting was part of a plot to get everyone in a hermetically sealed room that The Silence couldn't get into so that they could have a base to work out of on Earth.

not cool with Nixon being allowed in the TARDIS tbh

I thought the hand moving was bcz River tweaked a bit of wiring - the girl's arms are not long enough to reach the gloves so mechanical means would be necessary to make the hands move anyway

There was definitely a suggestion that the suit could operate independently (perhaps remotely?), but when it confronted the Doctor in 2011 and raised its visor, the Doctor seemed to recognize whoever it was inside.

it was a pretty silly solution -- people forget them unless it's linked to something memorable -- but there are so many loose ends it almost seems forgivable.

We're not supposed to remember the directive to kill the Silence because it's associated with the moon landing, instead, the moon landing happens to have a global audience and so the Silence's unintentional post-hypnotic suggestion will have been suggested to as wide an audience as possible (who don't consciously remember it, of course).

Also, are we sure that's Nixon and not, like, President Ed Sullivan?

Amy hit the helmet but missed the kid's head. They showed a shot of the kid screaming but unhurt with a bullet hole in the visor in this episode.

Yeah, I don't know if Amy was a crack shot to begin with, but she seemed to be firing blindly/wildly at the spaceman, so it's not surprising that she missed.

Lot of focus on how weird the Nixon impersonation was but the actor was really effective imo.

He was great, and I really liked the "record everything" nod to the Nixon tapes.

Yeah, apparently the Doctor didn't tell him that Nixon could stop after the moon landing broadcast.

Liked Whovian-Nixon, found it funny how smiley and not-awkward he was. Like, maybe HE would have been better than irl Nixon.

OTM. There was a whole 'imagine if Nixon was not a complete shit' thing going on which fits with the slight distortions of history theme going on atm.

Also, having watched ep 1 again, why were people complaining about River shooting the Doctor's hat off from in front? She was definitely behind him.

Surprised how THRILLED I was when the little girl suddenly started regenerating.

that was before the doctor put the message in the apollo broadcast. even though it was after the apollo mission. "wibbly wobbly", as aldo said.

Grrr, this is such giant bullshit if they don't specifically set up that he's changing history as per Christmas Carol. I like my time travel to pick some rules and stick to them.

OTM. There was a whole 'imagine if Nixon was not a complete shit' thing going on which fits with the slight distortions of history theme going on atm.

note that the Doctor also sets up Nixon to become a paranoid nutbar who assumes everything is secretly out to get him, in their last scene, too

Also, having watched ep 1 again, why were people complaining about River shooting the Doctor's hat off from in front? She was definitely behind him.

nope. Let's say that the schoolbus (why are they catching a schoolbus as tourists, too?) is headed north.

Rory and Amy get off on the east side of the bus.
Doctor is revealed as bus leaves, on western side of road.
Rory and Amy cross road, east->west.
Doctor gets off car, greets them, is facing west->east with the desert behind him.
Hat flies off his head, west->east.
Cut to River, standing with road extending behind her.

There is no road behind the Doctor in the previous shot, or any of the previous shots in that direction, so she can ONLY be standing on the eastern side of the road, facing (and firing) east->west.

ok then... hard to argue with that

the misdirect on Amy's nanomonologue is annoyingly bullshit - her life couldn't have been "so boring" before Rory metaphorically "fell out of the sky" because they have known each other since they were small

(also we have not seen anything that made it not boring since they started dating that is down to Rory himself, rather than Amy's impulsiveness, but we have only seen hints of their Leadworth life)

lolled at the script that kept making Nixon say "people".

And next week, about 4 yrs too late for Memeland but even so, PIRATES!