The official bored-at-work cryptic crossword pass it on thread.

Again the single-letter thing. U = upper-class? Is this a British-ism, a cryptic-ism, or...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

Pretty standard. Some might prefer it to be clued like "University head," or "Urban chief" or something, although "University" is commonly abbreviated U, so "University" is a legitimate stand alone clue for "U."

OK, just looked at that link.

University Head I would have gotten. This from the Wiki for "U English" I have never heard of in my life:

"This was a reflection of the anxieties of the middle class in 1950s Britain

Thanks for the education!

Seriously, being very new to this I am a bit in awe of you folks. How many puzzles do you have to do before "upper-class = U and sign denotes zodiac denotes LEO" becomes your standard thought process?

I've got one more from that Coinpott puzzle:

Actor Eric and Newton are well-known in tropical country. (6,8)

I got Actor Eric, and I got the conclusion, but still don't understand what Newton is doing in there.

Banana Republic

Newton = n, are = a, re. public?

I evidently have a lot to learn about single letter abbreviations!

N/Newton is an SI unit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_%28unit%29

Okay, thanks, I got that, belatedly, but I'm still confused.

BANA + N + ??? + well-known = PUBLIC.

Neil says above are = A?

The International System of Units[1] (abbreviated SI from French: Système international d'unités[2]) is the modern form of the metric system

Haha, I'm American, we told the metric system to bugger off years ago...

in that clue are = are, right?

bana/n/are/public
eric/newton/are/well-known

Thank you, I'm truly appreciating the input. But holy hell, I never realized this re: SI

The system has been nearly globally adopted. Three principal exceptions are Burma (Myanmar), Liberia, and the United States.

& yes, the abbreviations are prob the biggest hurdle for a lot of people starting cryptics - there's a large but finite set of them, and they're very offputting, especially the traditional ones that, I think, would not be guessable (eg city = ec).

It just sounds total voodoo nerdery when you have to explain one of those clues to someone: 'Well, the sailor, that's AB, able-bodied has a pound, that's L in old money, and he's in church, CE, Church of England, yes I know we say C of E, it just is CE. So cable'

Plenty of setters are manageable without having instant recall for all of them; some setters lean on them hard, and I don't usually enjoy their puzzles as much; and yeah it took me a good while (years) of off-and-on solving to get to know the abbrevs (though you can get quickly to recognising where there's probably a stupid abbreviation in a clue).

you can get quickly to recognising where there's probably a stupid abbreviation in a clue

This is it - you might not know the abbreviations but you can get to the point where you go "well, I need one more letter, and it's got to come from one of these three words" and try the first letter of them all.

(Obviously if you have all but one letter then you probably know the answer anyway, but a thought process a bit like the above does occur when you're trying out possible word fragments, especially if you get to know that the setter likes to use these things.)

I've been reading up on US units for force, mass, etc. and I think they're just being awkward. Slug!

>>>sailor, that's AB, able-bodied

Mind = blown.

It just sounds total voodoo nerdery when you have to explain one of those clues to someone:

oh yeah, i get this all the time, but i do have some converts amongst friends at this stage.

with repeated practice at any one setter you'll start to learn their little piquancies

eg crosaire- 'father' can be da, pa, or pp, prob others i can think of, for instance

>>>sailor, that's AB, able-bodied

Mind = blown.

has a pound, that's L in old money

^^^ okay, that's voodoo nerdery for sure. (and does not translate to USA.) You mean a sticker with an L on it?

>>>sailor, that's AB, able-bodied

Mind = blown.

Wait, I've entered the world of folk etymology - it is sailor, but it just stands for able seaman apparently.

v true about getting to know setters - Araucaria seems impossible when beginning (people always complain about him - I think it's strange clues + memorable name (+ my Guardian reader social circle)), but once you get to know him he's a pussycat (sure, yes, kind of annoying pussycat with sudden spikes in viciousness & belief that popular songs of the 1930s are fair pop culture references).

http://obdrive.com/images/L_Plates_rip_104.gif

Wikipedia says AB stands for "ABle"

oh, yes, that's what I was aiming to correct myself to, AB = sailor because short form of rank is AB, but AB(le seaman), not A(ble) B(odied).

I suspect abbreviations favour one style of setting and solving - the adding + subtracting coded letters game is part (along with letter frequency reasoning etc) of why a lot of the best solvers are maths and logic types, not straight verbal people.

Maths and logic = totally not me. I liked this one a lot:

Popular, healthy Republican? Bill Clinton claimed he was not one. (7)

inhaler

Not bad

All this stuff about abbreviations and no talk of cricket? C for caught crops up a lot, B for bowled less often. Not to mention leg=on=side(=off)

Another one I've only started getting to grips with recently, pi=pious=good.

and Run Out crops up almost weekly. (the aforementioned arroyo had 'run out' in the clue)

gtf with ur cricket, how's that for abbrvtn

^otm

Quick silver in reference to anger (4)

(I know mine are always easy - I use this thread to practice new things that come up in discussions, like abbrvtns)

RAGE

(Did something too similar to this upthread, but thinking about abbrevs...)

Spendthrift has expression of amusement in constant attendance (10)

Araucaria used to be my hero btw, but I think he doesn't use a lot of the cheeseball tricks like abbrevs etc

i do like the chemical symbol abbreviations, especially the ones that aren't just short versions of the full names.

i think chemical symbols and SI units are completely legit, it's the "crossword only" abbrevs that fuck me off

it's all legit, embrace the freestyle jazz of the unfettered clue imo

xxxp

Yeah, he's one of the truly great setters I think - he and Paul are my daily favourites.

Love Ximenean/Non-Ximenean setters beef:

Pasquale and I eventually meet for supper in a pub south of the Thames. I ask him about his criticism of Araucaria, and his face lights up. "I've got the prize puzzle," he says, "on Saturday. Have a look at it. It's my comment on some of Araucaria's clues."

The prize puzzle in the Guardian is mostly set by Araucaria, but sometimes others get a look-in. Bunthorne may have one a month. Enigmatist from time to time. Occasionally Paul. And now Pasquale.

"Do the puzzle," he says. And then, as all setters do from time to time, he has a moment of doubt about the clue. "It's a quotation," he adds, "a bit obscure. But it is in the dictionary. I think people will get it. I think it will be all right." ("All right" is an expression setters use frequently, as a euphemism for "fair".)

And so I get the paper and look eagerly for the clue, which is: "See cluer's use of rare, silly pseudo-lingo - absurd nonsense from 4 (10, 5, 5, 5, 9)". I can see the reprimand. Silly pseudo-lingo and all that. But the quote? I have a moment of doubt. If this is to be a good clue, then both the solution and the surface meaning must feed each other. It will not do for the answer to have nothing to do with "cluers" and their (alleged) silly pseudo-lingo. It must somehow complete the story.

And when I get it, of course, it does.

The answer to 4 down in this puzzle is Chomsky. So we can put that into the clue: "See cluer's use of rare, silly pseudo-lingo - absurd nonsense from Chomsky (10, 5, 5, 5, 9)". Something Chomsky said, then, and an anagram indicated by "absurd".

The answer is COLOURLESS GREEN IDEAS SLEEP FURIOUSLY, an anagram of "See cluer's use of rare, silly pseudo-lingo". This, many Guardian solvers will know, is the sentence with which Noam Chomsky announced his arrival as a force to be reckoned with in the field of linguistics, the example he chose to demonstrate that sentence might be grammatical without being meaningful. The reprimand is complete. "Good grief," says Araucaria when I ask him. "Was that about me? I did solve the puzzle - I don't always - but it passed me by completely."

Grauniad today was horrible. Mostly just 'cause it was hard and deliberately extra-misleading, but the few unfair or tortuous clues really rubbed salt in.

Spendthrift has expression of amusement in constant attendance (10)

Profligate

haha brilliant

btw, if sailor/seaman isn't AB, it's usually tar. if you do loads of cryptics, you learn to recognise these things (see also GI or ant for soldier)

i have no probs with AB or GI or ant but the former is probly quite britishes-centric

Thanks again for all your input. It helps me realize that there are a TON of permissible single and double letter abbreviations (I've mostly just run into simple ones like cardinal directions) and many are going to be eye-rollingly obscure to an American neophyte.

And also "deliberately extra-misleading...unfair or tortuous clues" may very well prevent me from solving some puzzles altogether. All good to know.

As a relative beginner myself, I find the Observer Everyman crossword pitched at a good level, and is definitely helping with harder (e.g. Guardian daily cryptic) crosswords.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crosswords/everyman/

Yes! It was an entry drug for me.

thirded, although i actually learnt at my parents' knee with the lol oxford mail.

my dad swears he only gets the Daily Mail for the crossword, which is where i learnt, but it used to be a pretty dope crossword, a lot harder/funner than the Telegraph/first half of the week Graun