Britpop : Time For Reevaluation?

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Actually I was always quite fond of Dodgy.

Far more so that I was of Menswear or Sleeper anyway.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 August 2005 09:00 (eighteen years ago) link

This is one of the priceless threads of ilm, actually. I always 'ave a larf reading through it when it pops up to the top again.

x-post - the shame of admitting it, but that "water under the bridge" tune they did was pretty nice IIRC.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 12 August 2005 09:01 (eighteen years ago) link

dodgy had that acid jazz connection stew.

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 09:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Tuesday 16th August 2005 - Britpop night on BBC4:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/listings/index.shtml?day=tuesday&service_id=4544

8:30 pm The Britpop Story

John Harris charts the rise of Britpop, its brief romance with New Labour, the emergence of the 'new lad' culture, and the legacy Britpop has left behind.

9:00 pm Britpop Now

Damon Albarn presents a compilation of live performances from Britpop acts originally recorded on 16 August 1995, including Blur, Supergrass, Elastica and Menswear.

9:45 pm Live Forever: Storyville

Live Forever charts the sounds that defined the real mood of the 90s, offering an alternative history of the period and a more intriguing vision of Britain and its music. Strong language. [S]

11:10 pm Pulp: No Sleep Till Sheffield

In 1995, the BBC followed Jarvis Cocker and Pulp as they charmed their way around Britain, having finally become popular after many years of trying.

11:45 pm The Britpop Story

John Harris charts the rise of Britpop, its brief romance with New Labour, the emergence of the 'new lad' culture, and the legacy Britpop has left behind.

12:15 am Later: Stanley Road Revisited

Ten years on, Paul Weller reflects on what he considers the high point of his solo career, the million-selling Stanley Road album. Strong language. [S].

koogs (koogs), Friday, 12 August 2005 09:19 (eighteen years ago) link

wow. reading this whole thread again. it's just glorious.

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Live Forever charts the sounds that defined the real mood of the 90s, offering an alternative history of the period and a more intriguing vision of Britain and its music.

Once again They seem to have mistaken 'Live Forever' for the Channel 4 docu 'A London Sumting Dis'

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:02 (eighteen years ago) link

"Live Forever charts the sounds that defined the real mood of the 90s, offering an alternative history of the period and a more intriguing vision of Britain and its music."
Once again They seem to have mistaken 'Live Forever' for the Channel 4 docu 'A London Sumting Dis'

-- Sociah T Azzahole (stevem7...), August 12th, 2005.

well, there is no 'defining' sound. i reckon pop house and rnb outsold both britpop and the often-touted better music we Should All Have Been Listening To (jungle, dnb, trip hop, etc etc). it's wrong to say any musical form is a 'more valid' index of 'where britain's at' than another.
and at least britpop did have a major public following.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:12 (eighteen years ago) link

it's wrong to say any musical form is a 'more valid' index of 'where britain's at' than another.

yep, and that's what Britpop Night will be doing.

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:13 (eighteen years ago) link

i don't think it will. the doc 'live forever' doesn't -- it at least acknowledges trip hop. and methinks damon albarn will be pissing on his old chips here too.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, it acknowledges trip hop, i.e. three second commentary of "therewasalsomassiveattackportisheadtrickygoldie" over a shot of a motorway at night how original.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:29 (eighteen years ago) link

i like britpop

dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:30 (eighteen years ago) link

marcello -- it is a film about britpop. but it doesn't say britpop was the only show in town. if it went into detail on trip hop, it wouldn't be a film about britpop. if it ignored trip hop altogether, there would be a stronger case against it.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:33 (eighteen years ago) link

it was so fucking ridiculous. it was so fucking ridiculous.

such a banal choice. blur vs oasis. rank piss vs shit.

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:35 (eighteen years ago) link

i kind of think many of the more vocal haters wish it was 'alex reece vs goldie' on the front pages.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:36 (eighteen years ago) link

trip hop/bristol was/is far more deserving of a film about it than britpop.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:37 (eighteen years ago) link

that's another issue, though.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:39 (eighteen years ago) link

although a nonfawning/unUNcUTty type film that focussed on HOW SHIT it was and HOW HYPED it was might be good

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:41 (eighteen years ago) link

if you're only going to give trip hop three gratuitous token seconds then you might as well not bother at all. they should have called it: "britpop - any colour as long as it's white."

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:43 (eighteen years ago) link

anyone who remembers the britrockpress and compares it to the records or ever had a fight at the good fucking mixer over fucking shirt/hair styles might think reavaluation = worse than generally remembered

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:45 (eighteen years ago) link

well, the film has quite a lot of auto-critique from jarvis and damon, yeah? you could just as easily do a doc on what a puffed-up tit ltj bukem was; i would def be up for a good, irreverent (as irreverent as 'live forever' doc) on dnb, but it would almost inevitably be done in c4 fawning style (this is innovative: it is important: and YOU all ignored it). britpop being retro and, let's face it, crap, means that entertaining films can be made about it.

i think it's kind of trying it a bit hard to say, because britpop musicians were all white (in a 95% white population) and were not influenced by post-hip-hop/acid house black american styles, they are necessarily racist. i don't hear a big 'black' influence in the sex pistols either.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:48 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.mic.gr/dbimages/1276_1.jpg

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 12 August 2005 10:53 (eighteen years ago) link

also: the britpop-was-so-laddish meme never squared with my experience. i didn't see how it was more macho than jungle, for example.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 10:55 (eighteen years ago) link

i think a lot of shit gets thrown at britpop that it just doesn't deserve. NRQ on the money.

dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 12 August 2005 11:02 (eighteen years ago) link

who really gave a fuck about the media by this time. the nme was SO obviously retarded visavis britrockk that arguments about laddishness were but a side order. similarly the hype and exponetial surge of "dance" mags lead you to believe that dnb was an amazing new frontier.

difference was - dnb came up with some astonishing records. britrock rubbed its cock in the slim up'n'down camdon lock.

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 11:03 (eighteen years ago) link

or to put it more straight (and watchout indie tendancies here) britrock = the new corporate rock and had the corporate media muscle wheras the bristol and dnb crews had to rely on somthing else

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 11:08 (eighteen years ago) link

ie listen

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 11:09 (eighteen years ago) link

difference was - dnb came up with some astonishing records. britrock rubbed its cock in the slim up'n'down camdon lock.

-- mullygrubbr (fan...), August 12th, 2005.

yeah, well, that just like, your opinion, man.

also: no media push for trip hop and dnb? ahahahahahahahahaha!

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 11:41 (eighteen years ago) link

i never said no media push. i just said no corprate media push. although that came too. :(

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link

ie britpop was always a media invention. dnb/bristol became one.

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 11:48 (eighteen years ago) link

i reckons goldie had a fairly big media push. i dunno which corporations may or may not have been involved, though. but it's not like britpop (or any musical form) was simply an invention of the EVIL CORPORATE MEDIA designed to make wite kids into budding white supremacists. there's a dialectic between music genuinely catching on among record-buyers and the media taking it up (and inventing bands like kula shaker). breakbeat forms, famously, were not a big popular success. (more popular than the charts would indicate, but still.)

xpost: bullshit, britpop was not from the start a media invention.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 11:51 (eighteen years ago) link

Britpop killed off, maybe permanently, any notion of "alternative" British music. Now everything which doesn't fit into the cost-cutting corporate agenda for change languishes on the margins, and stays there. The BPI can't afford not to know what music's doing. No more 1967/77/81/88 getting caught unawares. It's all sewn up.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 11:54 (eighteen years ago) link

b-b-but marcello, what about GRIME?

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 11:55 (eighteen years ago) link

ok then i revise my position just to say - in my opinion britpop = almost totally unmitigated shit. and if you belive it was some kind of grassroots expression of creativity that caught the publics attention without great corporate pressure then ok nrq. i hope you enjoy it still.

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:08 (eighteen years ago) link

EVIL CORPORATE MEDIA designed to make wite kids into budding white supremacists.

and...ah?

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:10 (eighteen years ago) link

er, no, i think it's shit too!

but the concept of " grassroots expression of creativity " as opposed to OH NOES CORPORATE THROAT-RAM is like, totally, not adequate.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 12:10 (eighteen years ago) link

by all means hate britpop and love whatyou love, just don't try to argue what you like is more 'authentic' in this clapped-out way. (also the 'britpop = racists' thing can fuck off: evidence, please).

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 12:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Why is it such a bad thing to have music that's not overtly influenced by music made by black people? Putting aside that you might not like the resulting music, the fact that it only has so called white influences isn't a valid criticism on it's own.

Seems to me that the problem people have is not with the bands lumped under Britpop per se but rather the media's coverage of it to the exclusion of all else. Until we have enough distance to seperate out the records that Blur, Pulp, Elastica, Supergrass, Boo Radleys, Oasis et al made from the media bollocks that surrounded it they won't be fairly judged on their musical merits.

mms (mms), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:13 (eighteen years ago) link

This has all already been said earlier on this thread (by the same people!) surely?

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Set up by racists, publicised and performed by racists, and grime has been such a shattering commercial success hasn't it? Not like Goldfrapp!

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:15 (eighteen years ago) link

mmm, white people not making overly 'black-influenced' music. perhaps there could be a separate thread on this strangely untouched theme.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 12:17 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe, but if it were a choice between Prodigy/Portishead and Menswear/Sleeper, it would be, as the meme goes, a fucking no-brainer.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:25 (eighteen years ago) link

sure, *if that's the choice*.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 12:26 (eighteen years ago) link

ah ok nrq i seem to have bin arguing at a tangent somewhat then. i have no "racist beef" with britpop. i have no "authentic" argument re jungle.
i do belive that the media push for britpop came from corporate backing. i also belive that the media push for jungle (ah, here we go...d'n'b) turned into a corp (and not so successful) backing. this is not an authenticity argument. it has to do with how much you "see" of a form. and how much you "see" = "how much you get"

grassroots = just me knee jerking to an argument you weren't actually making i guess.

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:28 (eighteen years ago) link

basically i don't think anything can be purely grassroots (for longer than five minutes), but that no corporate machine can ultimately foist on a whim a given musical style. i don't think people in music marketing are that good at it; otherwise they wouldn't sign so many acts which just disappear. britpop had *more* media muscle behind it, but in part that's because, probably imo, it had more sales potential than dnb. trip hop had huge sales potential and stuff like dido or gem still bares the traces of that.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 12:32 (eighteen years ago) link

THATS NOT TRIP HOP ;(

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:34 (eighteen years ago) link

the point is that 40-year-old record buyers in dorking think it IS trip hop!

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:37 (eighteen years ago) link

it's got a trip hop element.

N_RQ, Friday, 12 August 2005 12:38 (eighteen years ago) link

and whilst i wouldn't necessarily make an argument for corps making or breaking a particular artist i might suggest that seeding the media re a particular "style" or "new movemnet" might work...

xpost

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:38 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm not sure Dido or Jem have ANY tangible trip-hop element.

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:43 (eighteen years ago) link

mid tempo quasi hip hop beats.

mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 12 August 2005 12:48 (eighteen years ago) link


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