Steven Spielberg - classic or dud

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Calista Flockhart

gear (gear), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

John Rhys-Davies

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

(I can't remember the Raiders script well enough - even tho I've seen the film more than a dozen times at least - but I think there's some kind of "you're such an asshole for leaving me" schtick Allen lays on Indy when they first meet up in that Siberian bar...? which is an amazing scene, btw)

x-post

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

you have to admit, the Nazi was hot.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

the implication I got from that scene was that Indy is a lot older than her, like he deflowered her when she was 12 or something. "I was a child!"

gear (gear), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

Indiana Jones: pedophile, Nazi-lover, and hero.

Deric W. Haircare (Deric W. Haircare), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

sounds like a Michael Moorcock novel! allRIGHT!

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

that reminds me of the time in film class when a girl wrote a short film script that we were all supposed to read in class. It was incredibly creepy. Her name was Jen and she had a crush on this guy named Tony in class, and she was supposed to choose who would read what parts. The script was about a 9 year old girl named Jen seducing a 35 year old guy named Anthony, in extremely graphic fashion, and she chose herself and Tony to read the roles. The class was horrified, the professor was uncomfortably ecstatic.

gear (gear), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

sounds like Solondz's "Storytelling"...

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

it was pretty hilarious, actually. This same girl filmed her brother and his girlfriend having sex for an "art film".

gear (gear), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

jeezus, film school... that reminds me of an acquaintance of mine in college (at the time a budding "college lesbian") who did a similar thing for her senior project. Except she just tried to draft whoever she could to do the movie, asking people if they wanted to be in her film, have sex with whoever, including her (not too attractive, I might add) self - she seemed to think a woman filming people having sex was somehow inherently worthy of scrutiny. I don't know if she ever actually went through with it...

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

I went to film school! Steven Spielberg did not!

walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

He probably visited a few times though, like I did.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 28 July 2005 23:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Shakey Mo I lumped you in with Dr Populist Snobbery because you made the ocmment about Amistad which made me think you were trying to up this thread's ante into race-baiting liberal white guilt bullshit land, I mean DUHHHH Schindler's List -> Amistad -> OH THE POOR ROBOTS IN THE FUTURE -> et fucking cetera it's all the same, it doesn't actually matter that Spike Lee is one set of DNA and Spielberg is another. If they were fucking twin brothers I'd still prefer a Spike Lee movie 89% of the time because like Ally sez you can actually feel some aftereffect from his films that isn't strictly "wow jeez I'm sure glad that shark is dead!" and so forth.

Being that we own like 600 DVDs and go through at least 3-4 netflix movies a week, we do like us some crap, but the only Spielbergs we have are EOTS, Duel, and the Indy box. Point being: he blows ass.

I do own Traffic. It's not a superwatchable excitement popfest, no, but as an amalgam of a few short slice-fo-life novellas made into an epic, it's great, and beautiful to watch and listen to. I'm a sucker for the sustained chords in Benicio's ballpark at the end.

I think what everybody on this thread needs to do is go rent Buffalo Soldiers and see where Lee AND Spielberg have completely missed the fuck out.

TOMBOT, Friday, 29 July 2005 00:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

Buffalo Soldiers was shit.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 29 July 2005 00:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

Traffic gets a bad-rap. I don't think it's half as po-faced and self-serious about drugs or US policy as people assume (compared to, say, Requiem For A Dream). Tombot OTM, I was too sarcastic with my earlier comments (though they're true). I like it because it is really just a small film writ large.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 29 July 2005 00:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

Stylistically, Requiem for a Dream is the least serious movie I can imagine. I sort of wish it weren't about drugs, all told, but I guess a horror movie needs some sort of tangible "horror." Think, though, on how much more amusing the film might have been if it had taken place in a fat camp instead of NJ tenement buildings.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 29 July 2005 00:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

Traffic and Requiem for a Dream both present as the ultimate degradation a pretty young white woman having sex with a black man for drugs. Requiem's got some snazzy stuff in it, but it's shallow nasty crap. Traffic's not as nasty, but it's still plenty crappy and shallow. Duds both.

As for SS, he's pretty great through Raiders and progressively spottier since.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 29 July 2005 00:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Actually some of us just see it as a pretty young woman having sex with a man for drugs. Honestly, just because the current topology of our stupid fucking country happens to make it so that a story is just possibly a little more poignant when it's made a bit realistic and cuts closer to the bone of the people most likely to see it isn't any reason to lambast the fucking movie. Oh jesus you know killer whales have attacked humans too, you know, what the fuck, you classist directors. As if Mammalia is always the innocent!!! You and your fucking agenda!!! God knows we have to be totally fucking suspicious of everything that has anything to do with ethnicity. Open the floodgates, I will now take all your splendidly unique and insightful questions regarding patronizing colorblindness and why daddy knows best.

....

I'm partial to Buffalo Soldiers because that's about 50% or more of our active duty military, especially during peacetime, so as long as guys like NRQ want to request more "convincing war movies" why not show a little bit of the real fucking deal?

TOMBOT, Friday, 29 July 2005 01:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

Stylistically, Requiem for a Dream is the least serious movie I can imagine

Have you ever DONE drugs, Eric? More importantly, have you ever been on speed?

TOMBOT, Friday, 29 July 2005 01:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

requiem for a dream is a total joke

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

It didn't seem that degrading to me, there wasn't a moralizing element to it (the film being harder on authority figures than users). The drug dealer was even nice.

And Requiem wasn't 'sex with a black man' it was 'doing a double-dildo scene on a mirrored coffee table in front of a bunch of Wall Street fuckers.'

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah movies that stick in your head for four years after one viewing and make you want to wade out into speeding traffic afterwards are pretty stupid. Kind of like Pollock in that regard. I believe in both cases it would probably depend on your personal experience with some of the themes of the subject matter at hand, no? See again my ear-to-ear grinning at Buffalo Soldiers

I've got no intentions of rewatching any of those three movies again anytime soon, mind you, but at least I remember shit that happened in them and felt affected by the events depicted, which is more than I can say for anything our thread topic man has done since he did that one movie with our very own Alba, I think he was 10 or 11 at the time?

TOMBOT, Friday, 29 July 2005 01:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

You've spoken to 50% or more of our active duty military, tombot?

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

oy

s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

clockers woulda been great if lee didn't bet on the future of videogames being bizarre 3d headgear. also if there were not sweet part to the bittersweet ending.

also i've never seen a spielberg movie that made me want to talk about it. there is a good article on war of the worlds in the new york review of books though -- it didn't make me want to see the movie, but it made me want to reread the book but i think they ran the article coz they're selling reprints of the gorey illustrated version of the book.

wait.. i forgot that i heart the indy films too. they're totally funny.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

IN any case, Requiem makes being high on speed/heroin look like a neverending carnival ride. Even the Wall Street sex party is lit like an exploding disco ball. I doubt that's entirely accurate.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

And Requiem wasn't 'sex with a black man' it was 'doing a double-dildo scene on a mirrored coffee table in front of a bunch of Wall Street fuckers.'

The 'sex with a black man' came before that, and was the deciding moment in her basically turning into a drug whore.

And yes, it's very enlightened to say it doesn't matter what race they were, but it was still two young pretty white women having sex with black men for drugs, in both cases being clearly presented as depths-to-which-drugs-will-make-you-sink. And realistic? It was realistic that the rich suburban princess in Traffic went from honor student to ghetto crackhead in two weeks or whatever? It was like the worst reefer-madness hysteria imaginable.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

My bad, I don't/didn't remember the sex scene then.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

sterling otm abt geoff obrien nybooks review, its fantastic online and free, i havent seen the movie. itll take me hrs to follow up and see to how requiem is horrible, not to mention et the extra ts reeces pieces, my parents loved those movies, close encounters, how comping spielberg w lee or steve sodenb is bullshit cuz spielbergs movies are for children! i havent seen that accounted for

plus spielberg is abt setpieces and sodenb really isnt, i prefer the latter cuz sexier but this is apples and oranges, like hitchcock vs ford

006 (thoia), Friday, 29 July 2005 01:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

xp true sterling but apparently obrien reviews the sci fi spielbergs for them perennially, like ai and minority report if i remember, havent read those, not saying it isnt curious given how few movie reviews appear there period, just that its been going on

006 (thoia), Friday, 29 July 2005 02:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

xp bamboozled is my fav spike, also

006 (thoia), Friday, 29 July 2005 02:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've been waiting for 006 to provide some clarity to this thread.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 29 July 2005 02:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

i defer to eric h. being hi is not like a carnival ride indeed. it doesnt even look like 1!

but above i only meant if you want to cf spielberg w anyone it shd be something anon like disney. like maybe steve year to year hasnt made anything as great as the incredibles, in awhile but maybe we cld be more rigorous abt our weight classes?

006 (thoia), Friday, 29 July 2005 02:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

haha i came home and signed on all revved up to argue about howard hawks but now it feels kinda redundant.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

Black man named Spike Lee makes Malcolm X = high-school filmstrip

well, are there any biopics about public figures that aren't kinda like high-school filmstrips? you have to admit it's light-years ahead of "nixon."

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

6 raises a point... does anyone even TRY what spielberg's done? or do they only try after he's like done it already?

i mean schindler's list sorta opened the floodgates to emotionally manipulative holocaust flix -- jacob the liar, that one about the piano player (i think it was called "the jew who played piano good"? no, that wasn't it) if you want to stretch it, "life is beautiful" and etc. came out the same year as swing kids too.

same argt. can go for maybe a few of his other big blockbusters? like if nothing else he was the first to be that audacious. that was the dinosaur lure fersure -- i.e. we can take something outrageously schlocky that conjures up claymation and make it EXCITING and SHINY.

like once he taps that inner sap potential, everyone can follow suit, but until he comes up with the formula, it doesn't seem so obvious? or at least achivable?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

dinosaurs were exciting way before spielberg!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

xpost.. jfk and nixon were hardly filmstriplike!
neither was "the assassination of richard nixon"
or for that matter cromwell.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

ok what was the last good dinosaur movie before jurrasic park?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

the song remains the same!

j blount (papa la bas), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

jfk isn't a biopic sterling! neither is that "assassination" pic.

well, any ray harryhausen dinosaur movie is at least as good as JP, but i think the last one came out in like 1970. so i guess you're right actually. but i don't think the concept of a "dinosaur movie" is inherently schlocky!

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

there was "the land before time," but that's probably not very good now that i'm no longer 7.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 29 July 2005 04:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

I liked Buffalo Soldiers! But everybody I've watched it with has told me I'm crazy, inasmuch as it's "flawed" or (as I parse that) tpatently unmoralizing in the ball-yanking Spielberg/Lee/Soderbergh way. That being said, I think J.Lo has never contributed more to society than in Out of Sight.

Remy (x Jeremy), Friday, 29 July 2005 05:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Pianist is pretty amazing

gear (gear), Friday, 29 July 2005 05:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

I like corn on the cob.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 29 July 2005 05:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Pianist is pretty amazing

Have ever done a The Pianist vs. The Piano vs. The Piano Teacher thread?

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 29 July 2005 05:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

And for Spielberg, I think Kael sussed him pretty well right out the gate. From her Sugarland Express review, March '74:

The director, Steven Spielberg, is 26. I can't tell if he has any mind, or even a strong personality, but then a lot of good moviemakers have got by without being profound. He isn't saying anything special in The Sugarland Express, but he has a knack for bringing out young actors, and a sense of composition and movement that almost any director might envy. Composition seems to come naturally to him, as it does to some of the young Italians; Spielberg uses his gift in a very free-and-easy, American way -- for humor, and for a physical response to action. He could be that rarity among directors -- a born entertainer -- perhaps a new generation's Howard Hawks. In terms of the pleasure that technical assurance gives an audience, this film is one of the most phenomenal debut films in the history of movies. If there is such a thing as a a movie sense -- and I think there is (I know fruit venders and cabdrivers who have it and some movie critics who don't) -- Spielberg really has it. But he may be so full of it that he doesn't have much else.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 29 July 2005 06:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

that's pretty astute!

latebloomer: You may order a puppet similar to this one (latebloomer), Friday, 29 July 2005 06:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

When she was on, she was on like a motherfucker.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 29 July 2005 06:10 (8 years ago) Permalink


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