The Cure: Classic or Dud?

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Not at all, Paul. There's something about The Cure and The Preachers that triggers fervour of a disturbing religiosity in people's heads, well, in my experience anyway. And if you wanna put that to the test, gently question a more avid fan and watch them twist like they was shackled to the cross.

Hmm, having said that, I do get riled when someone fails to 'get' my favourite bands and indulges in the kind of mindless attack I have already posted against The Cure. Yet, I feel that certain bands are wont to attract a more dependent following, who hang the band's music like metaphorical rosaries. And I'm not sure that even among my most beloved artists, there are those which I could hold in such equally mindless esteem.

What say you?

Roger fascist, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...
If i brooded around and had a aweful voice, would i be as good as the cure, which coincidently, isnt even good to begin with

DUD

Hayward, Thursday, 3 October 2002 02:11 (13 years ago) Permalink

Oddly enough, I've never really sought out their albums; I'm sure I'll get around to it, but I'm pretty sure they'll always be available... Pretty much all of their singles, though, are flat-out amazing - how could they not be classic?

Clarke B., Thursday, 3 October 2002 04:37 (13 years ago) Permalink

The albums are SO WORTH IT, Clarke.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 October 2002 11:13 (13 years ago) Permalink

Quite.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 October 2002 23:38 (13 years ago) Permalink

hmmmmmmm .............
dud

donna (donna), Friday, 4 October 2002 01:02 (13 years ago) Permalink

I'm exactly like Clarke. Always loved what I heard, but only own 'Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me'... Last year I told a friend of mine that the reason for this is because I pretty much know that I'll like them and am just 'saving it'. Is this like some weird Cure phenomena?

Kim (Kim), Friday, 4 October 2002 01:39 (13 years ago) Permalink

I LOVE THE CURE. They fill a niche that no other band does. From the acutely depresso Pornography stuff to the silly dance stuff to the haunting gothy Faith stuff to the blatant sunshine pop... they've done all this convincingly and well. Did they invent the drugged up goofy romantic miserable goth ecstatic giddy thing?

Yet I do wonder how much my own nosatlgia plays a role. I still think Wish is great, despite every. review. ever. written. Maybe if I hadn't listened to it for the 1st time as a teenager travelling thru Europe with schoomates I'd think differently.

Aaron A., Friday, 4 October 2002 03:43 (13 years ago) Permalink

Where to start, Ned and Dan? I'm thinking _Pornography_, but some of their _Disintegration_-era stuff kills me (esp. "Lovesong").

Also, I really really like the Wolfgang Press song on _Lonely is an Eyesore_, but I've heard their recordings are pretty patchy. Any recommendations there?

Clarke B., Friday, 4 October 2002 05:30 (13 years ago) Permalink

In your place I'd start with 17 Seconds, Clarke. It has their greatest song on it, "A Forest" and I find it the darkest and most powerful of their records. A lot of their stuff didn't age too well (even Disintegration), but this record definitely stood the test of time.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 4 October 2002 07:03 (13 years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't go for _Pornography_ first; I think I'd get _Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me_ and the cassette version of _Standing On A Beach_ in order to get the b-sides.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 October 2002 11:04 (13 years ago) Permalink

Classic until "Stranding on a Beach" came out, after which they descended into the depths of self-parody.

TMFTML (TMFTML), Friday, 4 October 2002 17:37 (13 years ago) Permalink

I kinda saved them also, Kim - owned the two singles compilations for years before actually buying my first proper album (Disintegration) just this year. Though I do like it, it hasn't swayed me into snatching up the others yet. Maybe in another four years I'll get another one.

Vinnie (vprabhu), Friday, 4 October 2002 17:51 (13 years ago) Permalink

They fill(ed?) a niche no one else did (which I usually characterize as "Harlequin romance rock") and they did a perfectly accomplished and unique job of it most of the time but it's not one I care to listen to much at all. I can play Pornography maybe a couple times per year and it's sometimes nice to hear the singles on the radio but overall there's not a big connection. And I couldn't imagine sitting through a whole album of stuff like "In Between Days" or "Let's Go to Bed". The singles comp (Staring At the Sea?) is probably as much as I'd need of that. I'd buy Disintegration if I thought I'd ever listen to it. Wish and Wild Mood Swings were awful.

sundar subramanian, Friday, 4 October 2002 18:32 (13 years ago) Permalink

I honestly cannot comprehend how _Wish_ is AWFUL.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 October 2002 18:34 (13 years ago) Permalink

the cure were/are one of the best bands for dancing to whilst only wearing underwear...hopefully not by yourself...

g (graysonlane), Friday, 4 October 2002 18:47 (13 years ago) Permalink

Ok, I'm a liar. I totally forgot that I also had 'Standing on a Beach' on cassette - played it to death. I don't have it anymore though. I think my brother "borrowed" it and never gave it back! Ooooh...that little...

Kim (Kim), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:39 (13 years ago) Permalink

I like just like heaven, I'm going to get Kiss me times 3.

jel -- (jel), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:43 (13 years ago) Permalink

classic classic classic and why should you not dance to the cure in underwear by yourself! unless you are wearing the underwear out to the goth dance club, of course.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:44 (13 years ago) Permalink

Have you ever been to a goth dance club? Underwear as outerwear is pretty much de rigeur.

Kim (Kim), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:48 (13 years ago) Permalink

Clarke, start with Disintegration first, and then try Seventeen Seconds and then Pornography. I've argued elsethread about this already so I won't go into the details here...just click the link, cause there's a lot of other good talk there anyhow.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:55 (13 years ago) Permalink

Pretend that there's a smiley at the end of my last post. I sound like a meanie otherwise.

Kim (Kim), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:57 (13 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...
"And yet Robert Smith - the Chatterton of Crawley - had created if not a wall of sound then a very high hedge of sound, over which he seemed to peer at the world like a boy who couldn't be bothered to ask for his ball back."

the "cure=suburbia" part of Michael Bracewell's England Is Mine is one of the best things ever!

etc, Wednesday, 20 August 2003 08:54 (12 years ago) Permalink

"Join the Dots" (B Sides and rarities) is out on October 21st. I presume it'll have the much talked about Cassette b sides from Standing on a Beach on it, but does anyone know that actual tracklisting is?

flowersdie (flowersdie), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 09:05 (12 years ago) Permalink

Hopefully it'll have the stuff off "curiosity", too. And that soundtrack they did.

Classic, BTW. Again, my mid-teens coincided with Disintegration and I was full-on obsessed for a couple of years. I bought a shedload of albums at Oxfam last year, and a friend and I drove our GF/wives insane by listening, back to back, to 17 Seconds, Faith, Pornography and the Top. Divorce was on the horizon by the end of that evening.

Jim Eaton-Terry (Jim E-T), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 13:04 (12 years ago) Permalink

Hopefully it'll have the stuff off "curiosity", too. And that soundtrack they did.

Thing is, there are SO many B-sides and rarities which have officially surfaced that they'd have to put out a box set. As it is, if the remasters that are surfacing next year are going to include bonus discs for each with room for other oddities, then that will partially settle the problem.

Thy Lethal Zen Ned (Ned), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 13:42 (12 years ago) Permalink

This news makes me very, very happy.

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 13:53 (12 years ago) Permalink

won't come out on Oct. 21st though. That info was wrong

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 13:55 (12 years ago) Permalink

When is it out then?

flowersdie (flowersdie), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 13:56 (12 years ago) Permalink

No official release date..

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 14:01 (12 years ago) Permalink

I kind of like the guitars in "Pictures of You".

sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 14:04 (12 years ago) Permalink

Recently listened to Dark Side of the Moon and then Disintegration back to back. Confirmed what I already knew.
Fuck the Canon and the Keepers it rode in on. The Cure > Pink Floyd.

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 14:18 (12 years ago) Permalink

Just adding to the calls of "Classic" (up to, and including, Wish, that is).

David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 19:47 (12 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...
Shall I expound at great length here about The Cure's gig at the Barfly last night? Or does it warrant its own thread?

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Saturday, 6 March 2004 12:31 (12 years ago) Permalink

either way, spill!

teeny (teeny), Saturday, 6 March 2004 16:25 (12 years ago) Permalink

Yes. Now please. Or else.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 6 March 2004 16:30 (12 years ago) Permalink

Giz it.

Lynskey (Lynskey), Saturday, 6 March 2004 16:34 (12 years ago) Permalink

You don't want to make The Raggett angry.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Saturday, 6 March 2004 16:34 (12 years ago) Permalink

I'm trying to envision whether turning into a green Lou Ferrigno is merely a lateral move.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 6 March 2004 16:35 (12 years ago) Permalink

Pretty much.

El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Saturday, 6 March 2004 16:51 (12 years ago) Permalink

Ah well, the downsides.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 6 March 2004 16:52 (12 years ago) Permalink

Sorry, too busy right now, but will gush like a geyser tomorrow. In the meantime, drooooool over the setlist...

Shake Dog Shake
Fascination Street
A Strange Day
A Night Like This
Lovesong
Push
Sinking
Pictures Of You
Lullaby
Lovecats
Maybe Someday
In Your House
From The Edge Of The Deep Green Sea
M
Charlotte Sometimes
Inbetween Days
Just Like Heaven
Hey You!!!
Play For Today
A Forest

Fire In Cairo (as a 3 piece)
Grinding Halt (as a 3 piece)
10.15 Saturday Night
Boys Don't Cry
I Dig You (with Porl Thompson and Frank The Postman)
I'm A Cult Hero (with Porl Thompson and Frank The Postman),
Close To Me
Let's Go To Bed
Why Can't I Be You
Friday I'm In Love

Fucking hell, just reading that through sends me into space. I'm still shellshocked.

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Sunday, 7 March 2004 19:38 (12 years ago) Permalink

WAH! *whimpers and hopes for bootleg...somewhere...ANYWHERE*

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 22:03 (12 years ago) Permalink

THEY DID CULT HERO MATERIAL???????

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:05 (12 years ago) Permalink

With Porl and Frank no less. And was not Charlie saying some months back about how the band has fallen off recently? UNDESERVING INFIDEL! But I will not bear a grudge. Yet.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:07 (12 years ago) Permalink

Fire In Cairo (as a 3 piece)
Grinding Halt (as a 3 piece)

Genius.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:23 (12 years ago) Permalink

porl!

!!!!!!

teeny (teeny), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:48 (12 years ago) Permalink

Porl, remarkably, is now jobbing as the band's guitar tech!

And yes, Frank the postman showed up in all his voluminous glory, the first time they've done any Cult Hero material in (10 years according to Robert).

And was not Charlie saying some months back about how the band has fallen off recently? UNDESERVING INFIDEL! But I will not bear a grudge. Yet.

And I maintain my viewpoint, no doubt. Friday's only iffy moment came 11 songs in, when some (relatively) unfamiliar chords struck up - "What is this," I thought to myself with a grimace, "Joan Osborne's 'One Of Us'?" But no, it was in fact "Maybe Someday".

The Cure should've stopped recording new music after Wish (or more specifically, if you like, after "Fear Of Ghosts"). I love them still, but I shall not be moved on this matter.

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:01 (12 years ago) Permalink

I forgive you. Since you're going to help me find someone who recorded the show OH PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE...

Porl, remarkably, is now jobbing as the band's guitar tech!

Wait, what? So essentially he and Perry B. have completed the circle.

Anyway. First batch of reissues in a month. EXCITED!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:04 (12 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and Perry's brother is their manager.

I am naturally using all my spider-senses to procure a mixing desk feed of the show. I'll be absolutely amazed if nobody recorded it, but nothing yet. Ned, you will be the f...oooh, among the first to know when I find it!

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 01:09 (12 years ago) Permalink

I still chuckle about the fact that The Cure were originally signed to Hansa... they were part of the same competition that Japan entered to get a record deal. The Cure won, but Hansa signed Japan anyway. The Cure, of course, left for Fiction without releasing anything on Hansa, and Japan managed three albums before ending up on Virgin.

Turrican, Friday, 8 January 2016 16:53 (3 months ago) Permalink

Didn't they get weird comparisons to Pink Floyd circa 17 Seconds?

MaresNest, Friday, 8 January 2016 16:54 (3 months ago) Permalink

https://youtu.be/MDXAIerOQSk?t=1m38s

MaresNest, Friday, 8 January 2016 16:57 (3 months ago) Permalink

I remember seeing a review for the remaster/deluxe edition of Seventeen Seconds that called it "Pink Floyd for stoners that didn't have anyone to smoke with."

Austin, Friday, 8 January 2016 16:58 (3 months ago) Permalink

he has the exact air of Ronnie O'Sullivan in that interview :D

sounding like a silly Iain Banks on a track (imago), Friday, 8 January 2016 17:00 (3 months ago) Permalink

Gah, no, I don't hear the Jam in them at all. Joy Division is a better comparison for early to mid-career Cure, due to the relative foregrounding of the guitar. Even at their synthiest (e.g., "Prayers for Rain") they didn't sound all that New Orderish. I agree with Josh that they mostly sounded like themselves. The poppier Cure records with horns (e.g., "Close to Me") sounded like nothing else at the time.

I grant that something like "The Walk" may have a vibe in common with pop songs by other bands that incorporated keyboards into a basic rock-band framework, but in my mind many of those songs postdate similar Cure tyoons or simply share precursors.

Maybe the sound of "Just Like Heaven" or "Letter to Elise" doesn't sound that far off from the Church or the Furs or Roxette or Dead or Alive or EMF or whatever. But none of those bands could also have coughed up anything like "Carnage Visors."

it takes the village people (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 8 January 2016 17:06 (3 months ago) Permalink

Pornography is one of the most singular records any band has ever made or will ever make

sounding like a silly Iain Banks on a track (imago), Friday, 8 January 2016 17:13 (3 months ago) Permalink

Pornography is just Joy Division's 'Atrocity Exhibition' stretched out over an entire album, but recorded with all the levels in the red and with a superior singer. Still a good record, though.

Turrican, Friday, 8 January 2016 17:24 (3 months ago) Permalink

I think a lot of people are missing the original question -- not what happened a little bit later, but at the start, when they 'debuted.' Bringing in later work is an irrelevancy. To quote Austin earlier:

In 10 Imaginary Years, Chris Parry even says he was initially trying to duplicate his success with the Jam by finding a group that sounded like the Jam. Those early demos (disc two of Three Imaginary Boys deluxe edition) seem to indicate that this was true.

No, it's not the only thing, obviously. But it's a clear ghost hanging over the era, and Parry was extremely well known/influential in music industry circles, the Jam connection was incredibly clear to make when he started up Fiction. Imagine if the band had done nothing more BUT that if that'll help.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 8 January 2016 17:26 (3 months ago) Permalink

It's hard to say what kind of profile The Cure would have had if they'd done the first album and only the first album, and then split up... for all we know they could have just ended up being a post-punk era curio or, I dunno, at least a band with the profile of The Comsat Angels or something.

Turrican, Friday, 8 January 2016 17:31 (3 months ago) Permalink

The Trouser Press Record Guide said that "Inbetween Days" sounded "exactly like New Order", which doesn't seem that far wrong.

yeah, the first time i heard it on the radio i really think it was a new order song until the vocals came in. i don't think that was an uncommon reaction tbh, bearing in mind that it came out just a few months after 'low-life'

seb mooczag (NickB), Friday, 8 January 2016 17:33 (3 months ago) Permalink

Even with the Parry connection, it's very difficult for me to link The Cure with The Jam musically... in my mind, I tend to link very early Cure with yer PiL's, Magazine's and early XTC's, which they shared some elements with without wholly sounding like them. The scratchy guitar particularly.

Turrican, Friday, 8 January 2016 17:35 (3 months ago) Permalink

xp: It doesn't help that "Inbetween Days" in the same key as "Dreams Never End" and uses the same I-IV chord progression with the same rhythmic cadence as its verse.

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Friday, 8 January 2016 17:40 (3 months ago) Permalink

Yup. Although lots of New Order/The Cure songs have that same I-IV chord progression in a variety of keys. 'Age of Consent', 'Plainsong' etc.

Turrican, Friday, 8 January 2016 17:49 (3 months ago) Permalink

I've always though it interesting how a few of the unreleased tracks from the Faith/Pornography era that surfaced are really quite cheery, almost pre-empting the Let's Go To Bed era onwards, it seems that Smith really wanted to retain a certain sombre tonality wrt the records and the public face, but then at some point in '83 he must have thought 'well, fuck it...'

MaresNest, Friday, 8 January 2016 17:54 (3 months ago) Permalink

I hear Wire in early Cure, not so much after SS.

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 January 2016 18:19 (3 months ago) Permalink

At peak punk they were really out of step with other punk stuff. At peak New wave they were as stark and not new wave as it gets. The JD comparison I always thought focus too much on the gloom and not enough on the actual music, which is much less aggressive/metallic than Joy Division, which still owes much to punk or the Velvet Underground.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 8 January 2016 18:45 (3 months ago) Permalink

'Pornography is just Joy Division's 'Atrocity Exhibition' stretched out over an entire album, but recorded with all the levels in the red and with a superior singer. Still a good record, though.'

This isn't far off, but Pornography has a sort of nightmarishly psychedelic vibe that's unlike anything Joy Divison ever did.

mozart, Friday, 8 January 2016 19:05 (3 months ago) Permalink

"Atrocity Exhibition" is missing the thunder and bombast that runs throughout all the songs on Pornography

Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Friday, 8 January 2016 19:29 (3 months ago) Permalink

At peak punk they were really out of step with other punk stuff. At peak New wave they were as stark and not new wave as it gets. The JD comparison I always thought focus too much on the gloom and not enough on the actual music, which is much less aggressive/metallic than Joy Division, which still owes much to punk or the Velvet Underground.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, January 8, 2016 6:45 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Three Imaginary Boys came out in 1979, this was after the release of: First Issue, Black and White, Real Life, Pink Flag, Chairs Missing, White Music, Go 2, The Scream, Tubeway Army just to name a few. They weren't out of step at all - if anything, they were slightly late.

Turrican, Friday, 8 January 2016 20:10 (3 months ago) Permalink

The only other soundalike besides 'in between days' IMO is 'just like heaven' which is practically a Robyn Hitchcock n' the Egyptians impersonation

banned on ixlor (Jon not Jon), Friday, 8 January 2016 20:11 (3 months ago) Permalink

This isn't far off, but Pornography has a sort of nightmarishly psychedelic vibe that's unlike anything Joy Divison ever did.

― mozart, Friday, January 8, 2016 7:05 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Atrocity Exhibition" is missing the thunder and bombast that runs throughout all the songs on Pornography

― Very selfish, and very ironic (DJP), Friday, January 8, 2016 7:29 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well yeah, this is kinda what I was referring to with the "recorded with all the levels in the red" thing. Hannett's production on 'Atrocity Exhibition', as great as it is, sounds quite thin by comparison, but you can see where it all came from: the "tribal" drumming, the squalling guitars, the emphasis on the bass.

Turrican, Friday, 8 January 2016 20:13 (3 months ago) Permalink

The tribal percussion stuff extends even into the pop era, because Boris sure uses his toms a lot.

I guess in the barely punk era they do have a lot in common with other angular post punk bands. But the Cure drops that pretty quickly I think. Helps that Bob is such a different kind of singer, and that the band always had a weird knack for melody to go along with the minimalism.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 8 January 2016 20:48 (3 months ago) Permalink

By the time of Seventeen Seconds and Faith, Smith definitely had absorbed more than his fair share of Joy Division and Siouxsie & The Banshees records. John McGeogh was a definite influence on Smith's playing, particularly his work with the Banshees. Also, the "usual" influences such as Bowie - the number of times I've been listening to music on shuffle and confused the intro of 'Soul Love' with 'The Drowning Man' and vice versa is staggering.

Pre-Three Imaginary Boys Cure (The Easy Cure) were playing Status Quo and Thin Lizzy covers.

Turrican, Friday, 8 January 2016 21:04 (3 months ago) Permalink

They had influences, for sure, but I don't really hear them.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 8 January 2016 21:44 (3 months ago) Permalink

Dud

big Mahats (mattresslessness), Saturday, 9 January 2016 05:40 (3 months ago) Permalink


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