Most well-known songs based around a major seven chord?

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"Stairway to Heaven" isn't built around it at all but it uses Fmaj7 prominently (under "stairway"; I believe it's also the final chord of the song) and it's probably the best-known song on here.

(I've been not-very-actively looking for harmonic analyses and/or transcriptions into standard notation [NOT TAB] of Sonic Youth songs. Does anyone know of any?)

― Sundar (sundar), Sunday, 23 October 2005 23:52 (eighteen years ago) link

There must be a maj7 in The Girl From Ipanema (there seems to be in every bossa nova), which would make it the winner; TGFI is more famous than Stairway to Heaven, methinks.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Sunday, 23 October 2005 23:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Walk on the Wild Side, dudes.

― Sang Freud (jeff_s), Monday, 24 October 2005 00:02 (eighteen years ago) link

which could be read as a major 7th interval I guess but isn't really a full chord

I guess what I really meant was a major seven interval, not neccessarily the chord. So for example, any song in which the vocal melody features a major seven interval would count.

― Nigel (Nigel), Monday, 24 October 2005 00:03 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think the Dan's "Peg" is based around major sevenths. the opening is is chromatic dominant seventh chords. it's basically a blues, and if I'm not mistaken the chorus contains some minor seventh chords and one of those sharp-nine chords too. i'll have to dig out the sheet music, but that's my recollection.

the opening chord of "girl from ipanema" is f major nine, I believe. a lot of jobim tunes kinda alternate between major and minor sevenths, like "the red blouse," a textbook example of jobim's method, with its opening of G major 7 and F sharp 7/sharp 9--a real good one to learn as you ease into the bossa style.

― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 24 October 2005 00:04 (eighteen years ago) link

haha i am blind. "b on a b" is a dom7

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 24 October 2005 00:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, lots of maj7's in TGFI (going by this tab).

― Sundar (sundar), Monday, 24 October 2005 00:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I think there is. And fact the very first bossa nova song "Chega de Saudade" aka "No More Blues" starts out in D minor but then eventually switches to D major. (The last time I brought this up, Masonic Kate told me, "everybody has a song like that, even I have a song like that.")

(massive xpost)

This thread reminds me of something I read where Jim Stewart or Estelle Axton told Booker T and The MGs that they shouldn't play any Major 7th chords on any Stax songs because they were "too jazzy." I haven't checked, but apparently they snuck a few in.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 24 October 2005 00:25 (eighteen years ago) link

actually that tab is wrong: the chord played on the record is a Db-6-9

listen for yourself

― RalphTheHardrive, Monday, 24 October 2005 00:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Perhaps the earliest well-known piece with major-7th chords is Erik Satie's "Trois Gymnopedies."

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 00:27 (eighteen years ago) link

ny song in which the vocal melody features a major seven interval would count.
Is there in fact any such song? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a notoriously difficult interval to sing? I even remember looking in a book which had a list of melodies you can use to memorize the intervals if you haven't already done so, and for the major 7th they didn't have anything with that actual leap- they had to use "Over The Rainbow" and say something like "note after the octave."

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 24 October 2005 00:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Wait, I found it and I was a little off. It says "Ceora," "Over the Rainbow" (first note to third note), "Samba d'Orfeo" (first note to fourth note) . But I'm afraid I don't know what "Ceora" is.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 24 October 2005 01:02 (eighteen years ago) link

But I looked it up, it's a Lee Morgan tune.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 24 October 2005 01:05 (eighteen years ago) link

Does it use "Maria" for diminished 5th?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 01:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Of course it does.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 24 October 2005 01:33 (eighteen years ago) link

I doubt there's a more popular one than "What's Goin' On" by Marvin Gaye. The first four notes of the melody even outline the major 7th chord.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 24 October 2005 02:54 (eighteen years ago) link

But major 7ths in melodies, outside of jazz, aren't that common.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 24 October 2005 02:57 (eighteen years ago) link

What do you mean? The seventh is present melodically all the time in pop music (and is, of course, one of the notes in the V chord).

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Monday, 24 October 2005 03:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Sorry, I mean an actual interval leap of a major 7th.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 24 October 2005 03:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Both Frampton's "Show Me The Way" and George Harrison's "Something" feature a prominent D - Dmaj7 change in their first two chords of the verse. Brian Wilson was also a big fan, along with the m7-5 chord.

― monkeybutler, Monday, 24 October 2005 14:45 (eighteen years ago) link

True, but in both of those I think it's used more as a "passing chord", whereas What's Goin' On is actually built around the M7 chord.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 24 October 2005 14:52 (eighteen years ago) link

Right, tons of '60s pop is built on this nice chromatic trick: D / Dmaj7 / D7 / G

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Monday, 24 October 2005 14:55 (eighteen years ago) link

Crap, now I'm hearing a song in my head that I can't quite remember what it is. The chords are "D///Dmaj7///D7///Dmaj7///" - jangly 90s pop, sweet-voiced female singer ...

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:01 (eighteen years ago) link

It's not that well known, but the melody of Prince's "Condition of the Heart" outlines a major 7 chord.

― dr. phil (josh langhoff), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:02 (eighteen years ago) link

That's "Kiss Me" by Sixpence etc., right?
(xp with myself)

― dr. phil (josh langhoff), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes, that's it.

― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:09 (eighteen years ago) link

D///Dmaj7///D7///Dmaj7/// - jangly 90s pop, sweet-voiced female singer ...

Hahahaha it's The Cranberries' first single.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Another more or less recent use of conspicuous D / Dmaj7 / D7 is REM's "Find The River."

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I've been waiting for Geir or Tim to mention "This Boy."

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, and there are major 7ths all over the Hard Day's Night album.

― darin (darin), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link

The main riff in the Smashing Pumpkin's "1979" features a major 7th before it resolves.

― ajlee, Monday, 24 October 2005 15:40 (eighteen years ago) link

And "Misty"! Did anyone say "Misty"?
(xp)

― dr. phil (josh langhoff), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:42 (eighteen years ago) link

and speaking of "1979", I seem to remember that the refrain of Liz Phair's "Rock Me" sounds exactly like the "1979" riff--so that'd count, too

― dr. phil (josh langhoff), Monday, 24 October 2005 15:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Everybody's Talkin

― Jamie T Smith (Jamie T Smith), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:05 (eighteen years ago) link

Tom Waits, "The Heart of Saturday Night," the vamp that serves as the hook and leads off the verse is an oscilation between Dmaj and Dmaj7. Lovely little thing.

― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:21 (eighteen years ago) link

ha, this far and no ones mentioned the Cocteau Twins????

― zappi (joni), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe because there are a million bands that use maj-7th chords that also haven't been named?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I CAN'T BELIEVE NO ONE HAS MENTIONED BEN FOLDS FIVE.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link

uh? are you thinking of dominant 7ths?

― zappi (joni), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:36 (eighteen years ago) link

No.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm pretty clueless about identifying chords by their sound (having never had any training in music whatsoever will do that...), but if I've learned anything from this thread, it's that I'm apparently a big sucker for the sound of major seventh chords.

― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:40 (eighteen years ago) link

um. i doubt that there are millions of bands using major 7th chords. most bands don't go beyond major & minor. the cocteaus used them in nearly every song they wrote.

x-post

― zappi (joni), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

(xpost) For instance, the beginning of "Battle of Who Could Care Less."

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

No, I know there aren't millions, Zappi. Forgive my hyperbole. But there's quite a few, so it seems weird to be surprised that one particular band hasn't been mentioned. Here's another band that hasn't been mentioned: The Sea and Cake.

Matthew, knowing your tastes, I think your instinct is probably correct.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 16:45 (eighteen years ago) link

ha, this far and no ones mentioned the Cocteau Twins????

yes, "Sugar Hiccup" is Major 7th heaven!

Love - Forever Changes is loaded with them too, very prominent in "Andmoreagain", "The Red Telephone", etc. Bryan MacLean was bigtime into 7ths & 9ths, Major & minor.

― Paul (scifisoul), Monday, 24 October 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I bet a lot of the 70s soft rock you like is big into major 7ths. I'm pretty wary of them but when they're right for a song, they kill.

― Eppy (Eppy), Monday, 24 October 2005 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Not very well known but the Palace Brothers' "Gulf Shores" is built around Amaj7.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 24 October 2005 17:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Perhaps the earliest well-known piece with major-7th chords is Erik Satie's "Trois Gymnopedies."

this is always what I think of when asked to explain what a maj-maj-7th chord is

― Dominique (dleone), Monday, 24 October 2005 17:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Wait, what is a maj-maj-7th chord?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 17:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I bet a lot of the 70s soft rock you like is big into major 7ths.

Yes, "Close to You" is prob. a textbook example.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 17:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Skipping 15 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

ha, and that's not even right - dorian mode has a major 6th, which natural minor does not. I need to download the new service pack to my college theory memory

― Dominique (dleone), Monday, 24 October 2005 18:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh I wasn't talking about soloists, just those lowly accompanists known as bass players.

(xpost)

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 24 October 2005 18:04 (eighteen years ago) link

hmm, well as a one time jazz soloist, the rule is follow me, damnit! ;)

― Dominique (dleone), Monday, 24 October 2005 18:10 (eighteen years ago) link

that'd be some kinda augmented chord.
edd, I think that chord mainly appears when you have a minor chord and then a (bass)line that moves down from the root to the major seventh to the minor seventh to the sixth. Which is another pretty common trick, apparently. You'll know it when you hear it.

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 24 October 2005 18:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Let's not kid ourselves here, for 99% of the world, saying "C major 7th" means a major chord, i.e. play E natural.

― Keith C (lync0), Monday, 24 October 2005 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link

No it doesn't. It means nothing to about 80% of the world and the right thing to most of the rest.

― joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Monday, 24 October 2005 19:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Let's throw "I'm Not In Love" into the mix. It's a love song to the major seventh chord.

― Sang Freud (jeff_s), Monday, 24 October 2005 19:32 (eighteen years ago) link

The maj7 chord sounds a bit melancholic to me. I love it actually. Weren't there a lot of maj7s in late 80's Smiths-influenced jangly indie (like The Sundays)? The one song that comes to mind right now is Morrissey's "Tony the Pony".

― daavid (daavid), Monday, 24 October 2005 19:36 (eighteen years ago) link

four weeks pass...

edd, I think I just heard that minor chord thing with the descending line incl. major 7th on your favorite record, Two Yanks In England, on the track "Fifi the Flea."

― k/l (Ken L), Monday, 21 November 2005 22:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Tears for Fears' "Pale Shelter," if that counts as a well-known song.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 21 November 2005 22:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Best example I heard recently is Never Never, a Libertines B-side. It opens with a pounding Lust-for-Life style rhythm but on a major seventh chord. Very unusual as this chord's normally associated with jazzy soft ballady mush.

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 15:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Is this the chord that Neil Young always uses?

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 15:43 (eighteen years ago) link

... for instance, an F shape with an open (high) E

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 15:44 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah that's it, "Hey Hey My My", etc

― Keith C (lync0), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 16:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Not 'well-known', but I can't think of an artist more obsessed with maj7 than Harold Budd.

― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link

I thought so (xpost), in that case, LOTS of Neil Young songs plus Lou Reed: "Femme Fatale", "Candy Says" & "Coney Island Baby"

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 16:09 (eighteen years ago) link

... plus quite a few Arthur Lee/Love songs: "Andmoreagain", "You Set the Scene" et al.

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 16:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Neil uses that little D/Dmaj7/D7 run in Motion Pictures most noticeably. Mercury Rev used it on Holes and wouldn't be surprized if they got it from him seeing as they cover those On the Beach songs. REM probably got from him as well.

― dan. (dan.), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh and Burt Bacharach - A LOT

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (and His Endless Stupid Jokes) (Dada), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh well this explains why I like Neil Young so much. (I've been trying to figure it out...) There's a song called "Razor Love" from Silver and Gold where the verse just alternates between two maj-7th chords. It sort of reminde me of "If You're Feeling Sinister," in an odd way.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 17:59 (eighteen years ago) link

I adore this thread.

Hurting is OTM. What's Goin' On is the best example I've seen so far of a song that centers around a maj7 (Mercy Mercy Me as well). Reminiscin' by the Little River Band is based around Gmaj7, Steely Dan's music is littered with them. It's an open "jazzy" chord, underused in my opinion.

As for the maj/maj7/dominant progression, to "Kiss Me" and "Show me the way" I would add "It Ain't Over Til its Over" by Lenny Kravitz

― Ash (ashbyman), Tuesday, 22 November 2005 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link

"for the most part jazz players were using minor scales that contained major 6ths and 7ths (which the natural [and dorian mode] does not)"

The melodic minor scale has a major 6th and 7th.

― Steve Goldberg, Tuesday, 22 November 2005 20:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Interesting how the saturation of modern pop music with blues harmonies has exoticised the formerly more mundane maj7. Blues nomally uses a dominant 7 as the "home" chord, but traditionally Westerm music in a major key would come home to a Major chord. The seventh of the scale wouldn't necessarily be played, but if it were it would have been a major 7th: so the major 7 is sort of implied, even if not played.

From a jazz perspective, prior to the advent of modal jazz at least, most tunes also started and finished on a major chord (the tonic) that would naturally take a major rather than minor 7: the main exception would have been certain straightforward blues tunes. Jazz improvisors tend not to distinguish too much between tonic chords where the implied harmony is a major scale: the tonic chord might be played as a major triad, or a major 6 or major 7 chord, or a major 9 or whatever - jazz musicians tend to regard these as more or less interchangeable. The reason being that any note within the major scale can be added to the chord without changing its harmonic function within the tune(whereas adding a minor 7th to form a dominant 7 chord *would* imply a different harmonic function, in fact a change of key, although, as I said earlier, the rules for blues tunes are different).

But the use of dominant 7th chords has become so pervasive that the formerly more mundane major 7 now sounds a bit exotic to some ears, even when used as the tonic. To earlier generations it's the use of the dominant 7 as the home chord that would have sounded exotic, even jarring.

Going back to the original question my problem is with the words "based around". Most pre-rock popular music comes home to a major chord that would quite naturally take a major 7, but that probably doesn't mean the music is "based on" that chord. Some jazzy soft-rock does seem to wallow in that maj7 sound, often by alternating between a IMaj7/IVmaj7 (eg Emaj7/Amaj 7) Examples that spring to mind are "My Love" (Macca), "I Want to Make It With You" (Bread), "Your Love Is King" (Sade), "Wild Children" (Van Morrison). Marvin Gaye uses the sound a lot, as others have pointed out. You get (usually somewhat more harmonically interesting) examples of it in modal jazz - the reason why Miles was attracted to "On Green Dolphin Street" would have been that major 7 sound, very familiar to soft rock fans - he normally reharmonised the tune so that it had even more maj7 chords than the written version.

― frankiemachine, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 12:15 (eighteen years ago) link

DOM 7 = TEH BLUES
MAJ 7 = TEH POP

also the5th song on loveless starts on the maj7 (the note not the chord) and in general that album has a lot of those chords! a heavily distoreted maj7 can sound shudderingly beautiful, or shitty

i am listening to 'fun house' and i dont think there is a single maj7 chord here

― jdfkls, Wednesday, 23 November 2005 22:53 (eighteen years ago) link

One of the more well-known songs that I know of based around a Maj7 chord is 'Waitin' on a Friend' by the Rolling Stones, a CMaj7.

This is a very interesting thread....

― Vivian, Tuesday, 6 December 2005 02:07 (eighteen years ago) link

my fave Ronettes song - "Do I Love You"

― Paul (scifisoul), Saturday, 10 December 2005 01:51 (eighteen years ago) link

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