― dyson (dyson), Friday, 1 November 2002 21:47 (10 years ago) Permalink
Lesbian rappers are less of a threat to the hyper-hetero masculinity of hip-hop.
Hmmm? But lesbian rappers are women that suceed in a male-dominated medium, and furthermore don't *need* men (as opposed to heterosexual female rappers, who almost always encourage fellow females to get a guy, even if only for $$$$$.) Surely that's a threat to your average thug's comfort, too?
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 1 November 2002 23:18 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Honda, Friday, 1 November 2002 23:33 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Honda, Friday, 1 November 2002 23:39 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 1 November 2002 23:52 (10 years ago) Permalink
Or so someone tried to explain, zonked on acid, staring intently at a Bone Thugs ad at a bus stop. I think this was at Berkeley some weeks after a seminar on bisexuality in lower-class communities with high rates of incarceration. This also doesn't help explain the lack of non-gangster gay hip-hop artists.
― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 2 November 2002 01:34 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Kris (aqueduct), Saturday, 2 November 2002 01:40 (10 years ago) Permalink
It's kind of a cheap irony, but I enjoy it nonetheless.
(I guess you could draw a similar/stronger line with first-wave hip hop's dico roots, as also per the house comments above...)
― wl (wl), Saturday, 2 November 2002 02:06 (10 years ago) Permalink
Lil' Kim's frequently rapping about how she quite likes lesbians - there's even a song where she tells Puff Daddy not to yell "dyke" at them - in some ways I think the lesbian is almost upheld within ho-rap as the ultimate in self-empowered independence - though that said, I get the impression that flirtation with lesbianism would still be a male-porn style prelude to the main event.
― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 2 November 2002 12:34 (10 years ago) Permalink
― dave q, Saturday, 2 November 2002 13:18 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Nick H, Saturday, 2 November 2002 16:11 (10 years ago) Permalink
This isn't something I've even heard of before, but if it's true, it might explain why he bit a Bowie song.
― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Saturday, 2 November 2002 17:45 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Sunday, 3 November 2002 04:12 (10 years ago) Permalink
I dunno about Dre = gay. Calling your former-friend "punk-ass faggot," etc., figures pretty prominently in the various Ruthless/Death Row/and so on feuds. Witness Cube's "No Vaseline," Dre or Ren "talking to that bitch O'Shea," as just a couple instances.
Re: James Brown I read an interview with someone who'd been on tour with him, 60s or 70s, about him bringing along an effeminate male companion for his pleasure. I don't have trouble buying this.
― wl (wl), Sunday, 3 November 2002 05:55 (10 years ago) Permalink
― M Matos (M Matos), Sunday, 3 November 2002 09:36 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Pete Scholtes, Sunday, 3 November 2002 20:56 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Pete Scholtes, Sunday, 3 November 2002 20:58 (10 years ago) Permalink
*(i didn't read it if he did, so this may not be fair)
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 3 November 2002 21:11 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 3 November 2002 22:19 (10 years ago) Permalink
I saw evidence to the contrary a couple months ago while watching a clip I saw of him performing on SNL in 1980. Unless he used a prosthesis.
― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Sunday, 3 November 2002 22:23 (10 years ago) Permalink
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 3 November 2002 22:26 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 3 November 2002 22:35 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 5 November 2002 05:34 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Pete Scholtes, Tuesday, 5 November 2002 05:35 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 16 May 2003 00:10 (10 years ago) Permalink
Then again, would any drag queen use lip liner to that extent?
I think the gay scene rarely follows trends - and hip hop as a genre is just so outdated, it's too way back there for gays.... the fashions may seep into gay culture, the music - nah. Too violent, too ugly and impossible to dance to.
― russ t, Friday, 16 May 2003 13:11 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Friday, 16 May 2003 13:15 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:14 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:15 (10 years ago) Permalink
― James Blount (James Blount), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:16 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:18 (10 years ago) Permalink
....wasn't Rock Hudson 'married' too?
― russ t, Friday, 16 May 2003 14:29 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Ess Kay (esskay), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:31 (10 years ago) Permalink
There is a book called The Vinyl Closet, written by Boze Hadleigh, but it was published in 1991, is out of print and hard to find, and the information is outdated. It's still a fun read. There are interviews with closeted musicians (usually seventies has-beens) in which they are referred to by their first initial only.
― Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 16 May 2003 14:32 (10 years ago) Permalink
― russ t, Friday, 16 May 2003 15:48 (10 years ago) Permalink
*(I have no idea where yr talking about - they in the United States?)
― Ess Kay (esskay), Friday, 16 May 2003 16:14 (10 years ago) Permalink
I gotta ask--if hip-hop is way too back there in terms of innovation, where exactly is diva house?
― M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 16 May 2003 16:16 (10 years ago) Permalink
i think Em and Dre did this intentionally
― JasonD (JasonD), Friday, 16 May 2003 19:16 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 16 May 2003 19:30 (10 years ago) Permalink
Yes, we were sleeping in high school math class, were we?
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Saturday, 17 May 2003 17:45 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 17 May 2003 20:19 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Jenny Sans, Friday, 20 January 2006 19:53 (7 years ago) Permalink
HEADLINE: Gay Rappers: Too Real For Hip-Hop?
BYLINE: By TOURE; Toure, a contributing editor at Rolling Stone, is the author of "The Portable Promised Land," a collection of short stories.
IT'S Friday night in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn, and Caushun is chilling on the third floor of his parents' brownstone. He is totally street: baggy jeans, wrist bands, fresh black Timberlands, a diamond stud in his left ear and a baseball cap (worn to the back, at an angle) with his name spray-painted across the bill in graffiti bubble letters. Caushun is a rapper, and he's getting ready to rhyme, but right now he's flipping through Vogue. He did Kimora Lee Simmons's hair for her photo shoot, and he wants to see how it turned out.
Caushun can get fierce with some hair. "I'm nasty with mine," he said.
He calls himself "the weave king," an extensions specialist. He's done hairdos for J-Lo and Sarah Michelle Gellar, and he's the stereotype of the celebrity hairdresser. He's a b-boy with a poodle named Wesley and an apartment with ornate pillows with silk flowers on them and beautiful vases filled with giant lilies. Caushun is a 25-year-old openly gay rapper from the same neighborhood as Biggie Smalls, with flippy wrists, a gay twang and a flow that is liquid and cool and ready for the big time. He wants to be hip-hop's homosexual Jackie Robinson.
Hip-hop is now as large a cultural stage as baseball was in the 50's, yet the mainstream is just as closed to gay rappers as the major leagues were to black men before Robinson. And, as with Robinson, for Caushun to break through could have a profound impact on how gay people are perceived throughout America.
"He's going to open up discussion about one of the last acceptable prejudices," said his manager, Ivan Matias. "With homosexuals having so much influence over hip-hop from behind the scenes, it's time that they had a voice." He was referring to the gay executives, managers, stylists and magazine editors in the music business.
Caushun said simply: "Look, I'm keepin' it real. Don't let me find out that I'm keepin' it too real for hip-hop. Should that be the name of my album? 'Too Real for Hip-Hop'?"
Caushun recently signed with Baby Phat Records, and his debut album, "Shock and Awe," will come out at the end of June before Gay Pride Day. His self-confidence is so strong that he doesn't believe his being gay will keep him from selling a million records and having a video played on MTV 20 times a week -- in other words, from becoming a star.
The hip-hop impresario Russell Simmons, whose wife, Kimora Lee, is the owner and chief executive of Baby Phat, knows it will be hard to make Caushun a star, but he's hopeful.
"Rap music is one of the most homophobic musics we know," Mr. Simmons said. "But he's dope and he's unique because of his perspective on the world. I can't imagine that people aren't going to buy it. You think women and gay men won't buy it? It's a huge possibility."
Caushun says there were labels that wanted to turn him into a house-music artist or into the RuPaul of hip-hop, but he said no. He wants to be mainstream: "You got Jay-Z talking about girls, girls, girls. Nelly, take your clothes off. They put their sexuality out front. What's the big deal if I put mine up front and come out open?"
He learned to rhyme just hanging around his neighborhood. He says he would sit up in his parents house with his boys, smokingweed, and someone would start to rhyme, it was no big deal. "I rhyme about everything," he said. "I just rhyme from a gay perspective. And it's not like it's a flamboyant gay perspective. It's the next-door neighbor. We saying the same thing. I just might put a little gay terminology in there."
He plucked a few grapes from a bowl on a table, walked over to his iMac and put on a beat. The beat's just O.K. and the hook is kind of corny, but Caushun is witty, and he surely can flow.
What is recognized as the first hip-hop record by an openly gay person was "Hip-Hop Don't Stop" by Man Parish, recorded in 1986. According to industry figures and Web sites devoted to the subject, there are now at least 40 to 50 openly gay rappers worldwide. Most don't use homosexuality in the campy, cartoonish way Caushun does. The Deep Dickollective is a loose assemblage of black men based in San Francisco. Two regular members are Juba Kalamka, who rhymes as Pointfivefag, and Tim'm West, a widely respected rapper. Mr. West, who is H.I.V.-positive, is also an AIDS activist and a schoolteacher.
Their 2002 debut album, "BourgieBohoPostPomoAfroHomo," deals with homosexuality less sensually than politically. In one rhyme Mr. West notes that the struggle going on inside his body is far more frightening than the street violence so often discussed in hip-hop. "I got T's and disease fightin' for possession of me / How am I gonna be scared of Glocks you pops, G?," he rhymes in "Rhyters Retreat."
The collective uses live instruments and plays with forms the way the experimental rappers the Roots do. Its rappers, or M.C.'s, rhyme with the intellectual revolutionary pose of Chuck D and the erudition of Cornel West. They feel that just being homosexual in hip-hop is a revolutionary act.
"We're just trying to shatter that whole notion that a real M.C. has to be straight," Tim'm West said. The collective's most recent album, "Them Niggas Done Went and Said," was released on April 19.
The collective and Caushun are part of an openly gay hip-hop world that is as varied as its straight counterpart. A rapper named Semaj from Brooklyn, who calls himself "a thug who happens to be homosexual," wants to appeal to the same people who love Jay-Z. Tori Fixx from Minneapolis calls himself a cross between the mellow rapper Q-Tip and Prince. Mr. Fixx released an album called "The Mochasutra." Miss Money, a rapper, singer and producer from Houston, has been called the gay Missy Elliot. MaaSen, from Sweden, rhymes in a high-energy style reminiscent of the Irish-American rap group House of Pain. Katey Red is a transvestite from New Orleans. There are others in England, Switzerland and France.
Many say the best openly gay M.C. is a short white lesbian named Cyryus (pronounced Serious). In 1998 she released an album called "The Lyricist," which recalls the moody, brooding, lyric-focused feel of the rap group Black Moon. On a song called "Y Us?" she rhymes about a lesbian friend who's pretending to be straight. "You doin ya own thing/ a portrait of success/ congratulations!/ You've been nominated best supporting actress!/ I certainly hope the enemy is impressed/ now I carry the struggle on my shoulders cuz I've inherited your stress."
But Cyryus hasn't been able to test her talent because just being gay in America is challenging enough.
"When I met her in 1996 she was like, 'I got a record, I'm pushing it,' " said Dutchboy, a rapper in the group Rainbow Flava and a central figure in gay hip-hop. "She was playing all these shows at all these pride events. Then she had some family problems and had to go live with her mom for a while. Then she was like, I'm joining the army. She lasted about a year before she got thrown out on some don't ask, don't tell. Last I knew she was bouncing around the South." No one I spoke to knew how to find her.
Many in gay hip-hop feel it's inevitable that a gay rapper will gain mainstream success. They point to the once unthinkable success of a white rapper like Eminem. "It'll be like D-Day," Dutchboy said. "A lot of people will go down trying and then someone will make it off the beach."
The record business isn't so sure. Executives from major hip-hop labels, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said there was little chance of an openly gay rapper succeeding in the ultra-homophobic world of hip-hop. "A manager plays a record for us," one executive said, "and it's incredible, then the manager says, 'Oh by the way, he's gay.' Everything stops. I really think we would probably tell him don't talk about it. Don't rock the boat."
Mr. Simmons says there is a chance, if a gay artist can find the right niche. "The hip-hop hardcore kid may think it's funny, may buy a single," Mr. Simmons said, "but he's not likely to buy an album because you're not speaking to a lifestyle that they're aspiring to. All these rappers are talking about a lifestyle that people relate to or aspire to. I don't think the average straight hip-hop consumer is going to buy it, but there's a lot of gay consumers buying rap records."
Of course, it would be tough for a gay rapper to get the discussion off of his sexuality and onto his rhymes. The cultural critic Michael Eric Dyson, who is a professor of African-American studies and religious studies at the University of Pennsylvania, said, "Your flow would have to be so ridiculous that Biggie would be envious!"
Hip-hop has long ignored gay rappers and straight hip-hop stars who visit gay clubs, some of whom use homophobic language in their rhymes. "I haven't had sex with any famous rappers, but I know about some," Dutchboy said with a hint of mischief.
Coming out of the closet has its artistic advantages. Mr. Kalamka said that before he came out he was unable to freestyle because he was afraid of what he might say. Now he can. Hanifah Walidah, a San Francisco rapper, agreed that coming out gave her new strength. "I look at old videotapes of me performing when I was in the closet," Ms. Walidah said, "and I could see through my body language that my body was tight, that I was holding something in, I wasn't giving all that I had to give. Sometimes I look at these M.C.'s who I know are gay and they're off the hook and I'm like, damn, wonder what they'll be like when they come out? How dope will they be when they're truly free?"
Asked whether or not the hip-hop nation is ready for a gay M.C., Tim'm West said: "The question is irrelevant. The openly gay M.C. is here. Will you or will you not respond to it? If you don't, I'm still going to keep making rhymes. I'm not interested in whether or not America is ready for me. I'm here."
― j c (j c), Friday, 20 January 2006 20:08 (7 years ago) Permalink
Touche'D talk about a girl I was once close to and how shes acting shady on me now "So When are you gonna come and see me HU? when youve filled you girlfriend quota? Travled all over the world but Minnesota? Dont matter if I say pop or soda... Dont matter if you say Hella or really cuz years from now Im still gonna be me. Only differance is you might not see me cuz when you cant have me sure wanna be with me... no wanna be seen with me? better look in the mirror before you turn Touche'D ... Touche' Lady , take a hit flip the script and become slim shady.. dont matter if your dating a B**ch or a ladie cuz when you wanna ask me out im gonna say maybe"
Sone of the topics I talk about on my upcoming CD White Lesbian Rapper will be Lesbian topics such as: Hurt by ex gfs, a song about Jeeps (popular gay automobile), lesbian trends such as Jocks and abercrombie and Fitch jeans, with girls in pony tails, being broke, kinky cop sex, complation of naming of old school song titles talking about all the songs that remind you of one person from back in the day.
You may email me at Crookedluvr21@aol.com for more info
― Alicia Leafgreen, Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:51 (7 years ago) Permalink
this is a joke right?
― sean gramophone (Sean M), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:54 (7 years ago) Permalink
― josh in sf (stfu kthx), Wednesday, 19 April 2006 19:57 (7 years ago) Permalink
Givin' cookies: Gay sex in the hip hop worldAre the conditions right for a hot-shot gay rapper to shoot to the top of the charts?50 Cent: Not Homophobic/"Ain't Into Faggots"music made by the gays? C/D?Who put the homophobia in hip hop?
― Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 19:13 (7 years ago) Permalink
― Pete Scholtes (Pete Scholtes), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 19:22 (7 years ago) Permalink
― AaronHz (AaronHz), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 21:59 (7 years ago) Permalink
Thus, having the possibility to wear an Eminem t-shirt and so-to-say proclaim "Hey, I like Eminem so I cannot be gay", is very useful for 12-14-year-olds and Eminem knows that.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 22:14 (7 years ago) Permalink
― MikoMcha, Thursday, 19 July 2012 16:49 (11 months ago) Permalink
Just got posted in the thread for Dark York: Le1f - Dark York (2012): QPOC SHAKUR / #seapunk
― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Thursday, 19 July 2012 17:23 (11 months ago) Permalink
You've got to be fast these days...
― MikoMcha, Thursday, 19 July 2012 17:55 (11 months ago) Permalink
Spoke to Mykki for five minutes before her show tonight (a few folks I know were involved in setting it up and I showed up a bit early).
Cosmic Angel (the mixtape) is supposed to drop in October with production from Brenmar, Teengirl Fantasy and Physical Therapy, and some other folks I forget. She's recording in LA and SF in the next week or two to finish things up before her European tour.
― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Saturday, 28 July 2012 08:17 (10 months ago) Permalink
― LeRooLeRoo, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:03 (10 months ago) Permalink
based on the screencap, I'll pass.
― The Reverend, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 15:13 (10 months ago) Permalink
Be grateful you did.
― to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Friday, 3 August 2012 21:44 (10 months ago) Permalink
should i go see BIG FREEDIA on thursday night at a small-ish club?!?
― the late great, Tuesday, 14 August 2012 01:39 (10 months ago) Permalink
I cannot imagine why you (or anyone) wouldn't.
― to welcome jer.fairall, pie is served. (jer.fairall), Tuesday, 14 August 2012 03:58 (10 months ago) Permalink
Absolutely. Ass is everywhere.
― Eric H., Tuesday, 14 August 2012 04:06 (10 months ago) Permalink
rev & i talked this out a bit behind the scenes but im not sure i see what the pitchfork article did that this article isn't also doing? http://www.alternet.org/comments/medias-problem-gay-rappers
i mean, i think obv there needs to be a balance between defining rappers who are gay as a gay rapper movement & simply ignoring the phenomenon that there are now out gay rappers, (which is to say, there is SOMEthing happening, right?) but I fail to see what the pitchfork article did that made it any worse than what this article is doing.
― protected by viper. stand back. (D-40), Wednesday, 15 August 2012 08:11 (10 months ago) Permalink
Do Kpop girl group rappers count?
They're being promoted in a major way.
― hurricane weather (forapper), Thursday, 16 August 2012 15:11 (10 months ago) Permalink
With the 'Wavvy' premiere and the increased media coverage, I figured it was time for Mykki to get her own thread - Mykki Blanco - 'Wavvy' and the forthcoming Cosmic Angel mixtape
― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Tuesday, 21 August 2012 17:51 (9 months ago) Permalink
GANGSTA FUCKING BOO
― lex pretend, Thursday, 30 August 2012 13:31 (9 months ago) Permalink
and tricky O_O
Gangsta Boo is great on that but Tricky doesn't work at all. Then again, I've never liked him.
― The Reverend, Thursday, 30 August 2012 19:39 (9 months ago) Permalink
haha i thought tricky had come out of the closet
― some dude, Thursday, 30 August 2012 19:40 (9 months ago) Permalink
That's how I interpreted that as well. LOL
― Regional Tug (irrational), Thursday, 30 August 2012 19:49 (9 months ago) Permalink
i think they both sound really awkward on that track, she's no better than him imo
― Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 30 August 2012 20:14 (9 months ago) Permalink
love this. DDm is the best.
― tuomas without a nose ring (The Reverend), Friday, 14 September 2012 09:11 (9 months ago) Permalink
man y'all are sleeping on ^^^^that one
he raps over an az. banks beat and violently riffs on "Ima Read"
desert eag, desert eag, desert eagmake it bleeed, make it bleeed, make it bleeedima read, ima read, ima readyour obituary
― Cap'n Hug-a-Thug (The Reverend), Friday, 12 October 2012 23:59 (8 months ago) Permalink
are there any gay rappers in the UK?
― tpp, Thursday, 13 December 2012 12:47 (6 months ago) Permalink
― some dude, Thursday, 13 December 2012 13:24 (6 months ago) Permalink
I'm a 31 year old, balding bearded guy who doesn't drink but I do possess a love for post-hardcore or whatever
― tpp, Thursday, 13 December 2012 13:34 (6 months ago) Permalink
― The Reverend, Wednesday, 23 January 2013 01:16 (4 months ago) Permalink
i forget if we're still using this or if we've moved onto another thread, but there's a zebra katz mixtape out today called DRKLNG: https://soundcloud.com/zebrakatz/drklng
― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Thursday, 16 May 2013 15:31 (1 month ago) Permalink