2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

http://americandigest.org/jillgreenbergatlanticcov.jpg

http://americandigest.org/jmccaincntgreenberg.jpghttp://americandigest.org/jillgreenbeerg1.jpg

someone upset about these

http://americandigest.org/jillgreenberg3.jpg

how the photographer really feels abt mccain

"Relax, Ms. Greenberg, and munch your tofu or carpet in complete security."

holy crap

The rest of that American Digest site is just as bonkers, if not more so, than the guy writing about Greenberg.

pretty unprofessional, it seems

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1417423198/bctid1790977147

^that is some fine "political satire"!

I was a bit surprised to see so many young people heckling Lindsay Lohan (yeah I know don't ask) for her political statements on myspace, but I guess it's the whole idea of anyone defending Palin that seems so absurd.

^^ please to quote the choice bits

Lies alone won't do anything to their campaign. Remember, if you're idea of politicians is that that all lie, and some of them have to just to get the job done, then mere lying isn't a problem. I.e. your parents sometimes hurt you b/c they love you, and they're doing it for your own good.

The key is to point out again and again that their bullshit has made us weaker and betrayed all those who put trust in them. George Lakoff mentioned something about this like 3 years ago, that merely pointing out the lies wasn't enough. Come at this from an angle of betrayal, and you might get better results.

there is already plenty of discussion of lindsay lohan's bits on ILX

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/the_end_is_not_for_a_while.png

oh he does not really

I believe the stickman from xkcd comics posts here, we should ask him

Seriously, you wouldn't believe the grief I get.

I heard Sarah Palin's daughter writes Willow Rosenberg shipper fic though, so tbh I'm leaning Republican in this election.

1) never trust a photographer

2) lol

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/14/campaign.wrap/index.html

ok lol

100% truth test

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00583/SNF15SPDCN-682_583238a.jpg

I has a moose

RIP moose barbara walters u next

alan colmes has distinctly moose-like features

just sayin

how hard is this to understand - you don't need to increase receipts to pay more for one initiative if you reduce spending on others. FY08 spending on Iraq is nearly $200 billion. Obama's health care plan calls for annual spending of less than half the cost, perhaps as little as 1/3. No, we're not going to pull out of Iraq immediately. But we're not going to universalize health care access immediately either. By the end of the first term, we will both be out of Iraq and have a health care plan.

and iraq is not the only way to pay for health care. Obama will also do so by increasing efficiency in both governmental and private health care administration via government modernization initiatives, and reducing costs through government involvement in the market, promoting competition and reinsuring certain risks.

you could very easily answer these questions on your own, of course.

How are the faeries and elves and candy cane trees up on the UES, neb?

The war was paid for by the chinese and your grand children are still going to be paying them back.

Obama, when he gets in, is going to be facing a collapsing economy, shrinking tax base and, concievably, shrinking options in the international debt markets. To say, hey presto no more war, free drugs for all is the sort of answer that, if obama was pushing that line, would mean that you wouldn't want him with in 100 miles of Washington DC.

Obama might get lucky, there might be so much chaos and turmoil come January 20th that he can pull some real FDR style stuff if he has the balls to do it. Failing that he will have to work out who he is going to tax and how to create a healthcare system that is financially sustainable and has broad based support so that it is permanent in the face of attempt to undermine or dismantle it.

Ed, kenan was asking a mechanical question. he sad he cared about health care, not the deficit. or were you saying you know more about us health care administration than he does?

I'm saying that saying ending the war in iraq and efficiency savings aren't going to pay for anything in a contracting economy. The latter especially is a typical right wing way of saying how things should be paid for. If you are going to lay the smack down on people then you need to come up with better answers than 'down the back of the sofa'.

and i'm saying what does 'pay for' mean? our govt has effectively planned over the next several years for spending on iraq and reduced tax receipts via tax cuts that both are greater than the costs of obama's health care plan. against that baseline, obama would reduce future spending on iraq and eliminate some of the tax cuts, both producing more money to pay for his plan in the near term. the policy assumes that the efficiency savings in our health care market - in which 1/3 of costs are administrative - will pay for the plan in the long run. what, precisely, is 'right-wing' about this? in an american, non-'socialized medicine' context?

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/07/why_obama_offers_a_net_tax_cut.html

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/05/news/economy/mccain_claim_spending/index.htm

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411749

Whenever any party of the right suggests some kind of spending boondoggle or tax cuts, they always say 'efficiency savings' as a magic mantra that explains where the money comes from. Unfortunately the efficiency saving very rarely materialise to the extent that is required. In the specific case of health care you could possibly say that the administrative costs are the costs of having a non-nationalised, non-socialised system.

As for this fiscal planning, the current US government has, more less, spent with little regard to how much money they actually have and has left a massive fiscal time bomb for whoever is the next president. You can hardly campaign on the Bush government being poor economic stewards and then turn round and say, but Oh their numbers look OK enough for us to rely upon them for the biggest change in non-discretionary spending for many generations.

Do you read these links before you post them? The time one especially does a lot to support my arguments.

which arguments? you're misunderstanding or not addressing my point, which is that, while acknowledging that obama may well increase the deficit and that the US faces longer-term economic problems, there is more than enough money to pay for his health care plan against current baselines/within the existing budgetary framework.

an example of cost-reduction measures by an economist now advising obama. but if you want to judge this stuff on the level of european political rhetoric, then there's no point arguing.

That looks more like a caribou than a moose.

even if you are a Concord Coalition-style lifelong deficit obsessive - not that there's anything wrong with that - you still must acknowledge that the problem is a) long-term, and b) much larger than the specifics of obama's health-care plan

and while budget hawkery is not necessarily a partisan approach, in our political framework, you in fact could be accused of making the right-wing argument here

the next step would be to talk about how we can't really live with social security and medicaid any more

So your answer to this is 'the Chinese will finance the American healthcare system, next year and forever', right?

no, i'm saying that that obama's healthcare plan is merely a fraction of american spending financed by the Chinese. but it's also worth pointing out that a specific goal of his plan is to reduce the enormous amount of healthcare spending by both government and the private sector and that he regards this result as an important deficit-reduction stepping stone.

gabbneb I hear u are rich do u think u could pay for obamas plan?

Ed, have you looked at Galbraith's recent book, The Predator State? He doesn't seem to think that the huge deficit in itself is too much of a problem for the US by virtue of its unique position in the world economy, and as long as that holds, America has quite a bit of breathing room...

max i'm just workin hard tryna keep my game right

that commercial's several weeks/months old, xp

I have read around it and there is a growing consensus that the US's 'unique position' is at best faltering. Nonetheless, whether you subscribe to that theory or not relying on the rest of the world to pay for your overpriced healthcare does not seem the best way to provide financial or physical security.

xposts

ed, are you for obama's health care plan, costs aside?

or is it too 'overpriced'?

I think this ad is pretty solid

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/obama_campaign_launches_ad_hit.php