Yeah I have mixed feelings about the whole vocalist vs star-in-own-right thing. I think both can work. Katy B's obv got the goods to go down the second route but if she hadn't that wouldn't have made "As I" or "Tell Me" any lesser than they are.
There's a distinction here b/w the "Unfinished Sympathy" model (Shara loses out because of the excess of auteurism attributed to Massive Attack) and the "Flowers" model (people love the tune without necessarily drawing any conclusions about Sunship or Sweet Female Attitude).
Yeah I was being a bit careful to separate the audience from the way the music is written about. It's partly because dance audiences don't much care whether or not something is faceless, even when there's a face attached. But the fact we're even having this conversation demonstrates that female vocalists (and maybe dance vocalists in general) have been a bit hard done by over the years, whereas no one worries about this distinction with rappers.
It's about personality obviously but the amazing voice helps. Was going to say she sounds a lot like a jazz singer (on 'Why You Always Here' in particular) but that's a common trait with early Sugababes as well. Maybe that's her stage school background coming into play. Still, credit to Rinse for having the foresight to run with her as a frontwoman in her own right. I doubt they were expecting her to be this commercially successful, although you can't entirely separate any of this from a renewed swagger surrounding post-Dizzee (kill me now) "UK urban pop".
The most heartening thing about this is that it doesn't feel watered down for a mainstream audience, like at all. If anything it gives lie to the notion that you have to water underground styles down to cross over. The producers have the sense to get out of the way and let Katy take centre stage but it doesn't feel like they're losing focus on the dancefloor or self-consciously courting pop audiences.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 31 March 2011 10:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
Got a bit of a shock when I thought she was singing in "Easy Please Me": "Now if there's one thing I can't stand it's Africans".
― Tim F, Thursday, 31 March 2011 12:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Haha I hear that every time! It never fails to make my ears pin back.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Thursday, 31 March 2011 13:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol yep, me three.
― r|t|c, Thursday, 31 March 2011 13:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
"I mean dubstep to us is fucking ancient. We're like: 'Dubstep, again. Another dubstep conversation.' But the rest of the world is jumping on dubstep right now. Normally when it gets to that stage, it means we're nearly done with it. Like Katy says, funky is newer than dubstep. And that's where she actually comes from. Her first big hit that crossed over was a dubstep tune, but her first four tracks were garage and funky influenced. So the album's a hybrid of sound that's all of the underground, rather than a genre."
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Thursday, 31 March 2011 14:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's also very 90s sounding - the twin pillars of the album are 'Good Life' and 'Let Me Be Your Fantasy'.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 31 March 2011 15:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
Now with a real band!
― abcfsk, Thursday, 31 March 2011 17:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
Here's the radio rip of the OG "Lights On"http://www.mediafire.com/?fid9p4a5etooziaNot that different but i listened to it a lot and was slightly disappointed by the released version
― Number None, Thursday, 31 March 2011 22:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
FWIW I wrote a bit about "good songs" in dance music for my 2010 wrap-up thread. This runs the line I was pushing above a bit harder than I mean it in general: at the time my plan was to write up "It's What You Do" later and basically argue in the opposite direction.
Tim's overflowing bounty of 2010 pop riches extravaganza thread
― Tim F, Thursday, 31 March 2011 22:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ooh... That live thing sounded horribly like the brand new heavies. Oh well, at least it confirms that, yes, sadly at 30 years old I have developed a crush on a celebrity.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Thursday, 31 March 2011 22:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah, I was going to post "lol acid jazz"
― Neo Tony (sic), Thursday, 31 March 2011 22:59 (2 years ago) Permalink
"horribly" like the brand new heavies? what is "lol" about acid jazz? i just had to have this argument on freakytrig, ugh #fearofjazz #fearofsmooth #fearofclassy
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
"hard to get" is explicitly in that lineage
"dream on dreamer" is classic 4eva
I just don't like the brand new heavies, see?
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:04 (2 years ago) Permalink
well rectify that!
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
Only if you listen to steely dan.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
what is "lol" about acid jazz?
removing the propulsiveness, the joy of physicality and adrenaline rushes that her songs capture so well; and replacing it with tedious filigrees - eg the gently tapped hats and ride - and stale signifiers - eg the twinned saxes, the bass player's gentle hat - designed to communicate to a "grown-up" TV audience that this is safe for them to buy and like, rather than a reinterpretation that serves the song.
― Neo Tony (sic), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
i do actually intend to do that at some point!
actually if you like steely dan and katy b there's no reason for you not to like the brand new heavies.
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
xp i haven't watched that tv performance yet, i was asking what's so lol about acid jazz in the first place
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
I like this version...though why have her backing band gone for an "unfortunate headgear" theme?
― Carthusian Product (seandalai), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
Much as I like to keep an open mind I kind of filed bnh away with adult contempop like lighthouse family. Music for media dads to drive their 6th form drama student kids back from school by. This perception was perpetuated by a terrible band made up of said drama students who subjected our school hall to a smugly barefoot rendition of 'midnight at the oasis' circa 1994. In retrospect this might have been the moment I turned to punk rock for my teenage kicks.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:26 (2 years ago) Permalink
i loved "midnight at the oasis" so much at the time! i never got the impression it was "for" anyone in particular, let alone...that oddly specific demographic you cite, possibly because i was 11 at the time and a massive BNH fan myself. even bought their album on CD, had a bit of an early gay-crush on n'dea davenport
― lex pretend, Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:29 (2 years ago) Permalink
I swear one of those kids had fucking toerings on and they had a member called Cool Dave who played the fucking tambourine. I'm sure there was a silly hat in there too but maybe that's my memory running away with me. Still, that evening in the school hall was awful, lex. Like the whole of everything that was wrong about 1993 just served up on an assembly stage to a crowd of unsuspecting teens. We needed a Birbalsingh of our own...
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Thursday, 31 March 2011 23:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
dream on dreamer>>>
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Friday, 1 April 2011 12:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
and they had a member called Cool Dave who played the fucking tambourine
oh man this shit is too real <3
― c sharp major, Friday, 1 April 2011 13:03 (2 years ago) Permalink
Hate to interrupt this mid-90s episode of Later With Jools Holland but honestly this album is unfuckable-with - from Witches Brew right through to Perfect Stranger is an incredible run.
― Matt DC, Friday, 1 April 2011 13:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
Ooh... That live thing sounded horribly like the brand new heavies. Oh well, at least it confirms that, yes, sadly at 30 years old I have developed a crush on a celebrity.― ford lopatin (dog latin), Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― more than a Bale-sized gulf (whatever), Friday, 1 April 2011 22:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
What is wrong with having a crush on a celebrity at age 30? God forbid a 30 year old finds someone attractive!!!
― lilsoulbrother, Friday, 1 April 2011 23:12 (2 years ago) Permalink
Plus Brand New Heavies is great. Siedah Garrett all the way.
― lilsoulbrother, Friday, 1 April 2011 23:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
I think there is a legitimate fear of live musicianship with music like this less because of whether Brand New Heavies in and of themselves were good and more because historically dance music and dance-pop music that starts going down that path quickly has gone to shit.
― Tim F, Friday, 1 April 2011 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well anyway her voice is great.
― abcfsk, Friday, 1 April 2011 23:34 (2 years ago) Permalink
i don't know much abt dance music or pop and whatnot
but that louder song is really really good
i like the other ones too, i watched all the youtubes.
they do real cool stuff with vocal effects, reminds me of old dub effects but like more computer space age stuff, like extending the ends of lines until all these layers of decaying echo are bouncing off each other
that's probably pretty common in dance music i've never heard, i bet, but yeah my rock dude ref point is old dub shit i guess.
― Bleeqwot the Chef (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 1 April 2011 23:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
Lilsoulbrother, naw I'm just surprised at myself really as I've never been a celebrity crush kinda guy, not even in my teens, so to find myself kind of sighing and rearranging my hair when I see a photo or vid is very peculiar and not characteristic of me at all. Still she is lovely, isn't she? Sigh....
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Saturday, 2 April 2011 01:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
standing at the barwith my friend oliviaaa
<3 <3
― lex pretend, Monday, 4 April 2011 11:24 (2 years ago) Permalink
NO BOY IS ON A LEVEL BELIEVE ME
― lex pretend, Monday, 4 April 2011 11:25 (2 years ago) Permalink
― lex pretend, Monday, 4 April 2011 12:24 (17 minutes ago) Bookmark
Best line imo.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Monday, 4 April 2011 11:43 (2 years ago) Permalink
finally heard this. its good but not as great as it could have been. theres a radio 1 sort of approach to the production which tires me out after a while, very LOUD and impossible to ignore, and i do like lots of the production touches, but despite what i said upthread about her being the person who really leads these songs rather than the producers, her songwriting ability actually gets stretched a bit thin over a full album (and what was she doing with the shout outs at the end?!!?) and you start to think she doesnt have quite as many ideas as first thought. she ends up resorting to a lot of the same sort of melodic tricks over and over. lovely voice throughout, but i think she could do with a writing partner. is only the first album though, so hey.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 4 April 2011 11:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
it would have been stronger if they included new versions of as i and tell me i think.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 4 April 2011 11:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
What's wrong with the shout outs?
― Number None, Monday, 4 April 2011 11:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
The shout outs are so sweet.
― ford lopatin (dog latin), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
the other katy b (bush) would never do shout outs
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
I've heard the shout outs once and I never want to hear them again. Save it for the sleevenotes.
― Pop is superior to all other genres (DL), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:05 (2 years ago) Permalink
exactly. it just makes her sound amateur to be honest. its not a hip hop record. but if it was at least a separate track like on kanyes first album that would make it a bit better.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
the shoutouts only bothered me by virtue of the track they're spoken over being really great and jazzy - like if I was a DJ I guess I'd think it a waste of a good instrumental
― 1000 Vults Of Nult (DJ Mencap), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:11 (2 years ago) Permalink
this album is great imo+btw+fuiud
― 1000 Vults Of Nult (DJ Mencap), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:13 (2 years ago) Permalink
There's a Britishness about this album which I am completely incapable of grappling with, even though it sounds like it was programmed by robots for me to love it
― 40% chill and 100% negative (Tracer Hand), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:14 (2 years ago) Permalink
shout outs on an album = almost always a waste of plastic/filespace
im thinking that shes actually just not that good at crafting album cuts, shes better just doing straight up club hits like lights on, as i, and so on. obv the hit to miss ratio of songs like that means that you cant always come up with the goods doing that kind of thing all the time, but those are still her best moments - the rest just doesnt really match up. so maybe she *is* better off being a producers puppet, or at least co-pupeteering herself. i do need to hear the album more though.
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
ehh I don't really get to go to funky nights or whatever much but I'm not sure the difference between 'club track' and 'album track' on this is as big or clear as you're suggesting
― 1000 Vults Of Nult (DJ Mencap), Monday, 4 April 2011 12:20 (2 years ago) Permalink
Titchy you are insanely wrong about virtually everything here. Given most of the album was produced by Geeneus and Zinc, who know their way around a club track, the distinction you're drawing is virtually non-existent. Almost everything here is a club track, or at least a club-friendly track.
― Matt DC, Monday, 4 April 2011 16:18 (2 years ago) Permalink
I find the shout outs kind of sweet actually, it's like having the credits roll on what's otherwise a slightly underwhelming closer (relative to the rest of the album which is A+++).
― Matt DC, Monday, 4 April 2011 16:19 (2 years ago) Permalink